Yup
The blades b/w foam core and fiberglass only probably feel somewhat different due to the different thickness and possibly other shape differences on the power and back faces… Have not had them back to back so can’t really ellaborate much on this…
Oval shaft
– Last Updated: Jan-30-12 11:24 AM EST –
I have my Werner Desperado in my hand as I type this (OK, I left it back in the garage by now) - it is most definitely oval at the hand position and round at the ferule area. This is a straight carbon shaft. My Cyprus is a bent shaft and it too is oval at the hand grip area.
Not sure if the Shuna/Corry in straight shaft are round or oval - perhaps someone who owns them can tell you for sure...
EDIT: see here - it is oval, it seems: http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=W16 looks like Shuna is oval...
EDIT: I too thought about you being a bit heavier than me but shorter and that you might have a preference for a bigger blade due to that (assuming the weight diff is not due mainly to flab, that is). Your stroke will be a bit shorter than mine probably, so might as well get more out of it with a bigger blade. But do you need "more" is a question only you can answer, I'm afraid... If the price is right, get both, play with them, then re-sell one in the Spring.
Oval = indexing?
Is that what you mean, that there is a diff at some point that transmits blade orientation clearly thru the shape under your hand?
The Werners are not especially so IMO, but there are lots of ways to increase that feeling that have been heavily explored by the WW crowd.
Celia has it right
Cadence is key, not a big blade. Most racers have gone to smaller blades so they can icrease their cadence. If your goal is speed, then go with a smaller blade. That, along with good technique.
The Epic Paddle Wizard
You may try this wizard as well. Obviously, they only suggest to you the Epic paddles, but you can see where it slots you… Weight would not matter much for blade area but it might for a slightly shorter shaft if you sink the boat more (but that would be I guess a fraction of an inch difference only)…
http://www.epickayaks.com/products/paddlewizard
The worst that could go wrong
"Indexing", Thanks Celia, now I know the correct term, I am still learning.
On my current paddle the “indexing” is very pronounced and I like the idea a lot. As long as the Werner has a least a bit then I will be happy.
Ok so logically, after reading the comments, I should order then Shuna, what is the worst that could happen.
Shuna : If I felt it was too small I could give it to my wife.
Corry : I would be tearing muscles and would gain an expensive 2nd paddle. I couldn’t give to the wife…well I shouldn’t…
Epic
The Epic gives me a paddle length of 211 -> 213, just slightly under what I currently use , 215. So the chart seems correct.
Paddles = Gears on Bike
– Last Updated: Jan-30-12 12:52 PM EST –
Many are familiar with the concept of spinning
for bicycling on various terrain conditions.
Paddling is a very similar scenario where technique,
strategy and physical characteristics come into play.
Grinding it out in high gear isn't always best.
Demo a bunch of paddlers at a local kayak demo day.
Sprint a bit to see how they bite into the water,
and then go into touring mode where you'll be doing
that repeated motion for hours upon hours.
I've known people to bring 2 sets of paddles,
not only for redunancy, but for differing conditions.
Paddle A for covering dstances quickly,
Paddle B for lazily touring and sightseeing.
You'll notice drumsticks come in various lengths
as well and musicians will go to shorter sticks
as they tire out during long sessions.
paddle
Now your thinkin’ like a true paddler.
Start with the smaller blade
You say you’re new to paddling. Paddling makes your body work in ways that no other activity does, so a smaller blade will give your joints a chance to build up to the task without being as likely to injure them.
Because you’re going to need a spare paddle anyway, you might as well buy the Shuna and give it a good (long-term) tryout. If you honestly think that you need a bigger blade, the Shuna can be either a spare paddle OR (as you stated), your wife could use it.
BTW, the Shuna is not a small blade. It is medium-sized. It should be big enough for your purposes.
Blade Size
It doesn’t seem intuitive, but the larger the blade, the more water (and thus more resistance) the paddle will press against. It is almost exactly like gears on a bicycle. Bigger blade = (slightly) more power at the cost of effort (and stress on tissues, as others point out). My understanding that paddle length has a greater affect upon cadence than blade size (although you will fatigue more quickly with a fat blade).
From http://www.roguepaddler.com/choose2.htm
“For touring kayaks, or kayaks less than, say, 25 inches wide, it seems appropriate to buy a paddle with a long, narrow blade design. It might require a few extra strokes to get your kayak up to speed (compared to a wider paddle), but it will be far more efficient, allowing you to paddle farther with less exhaustion. …stuff deleted
recreational kayaks are so wide that they need a little extra “oomph” in the paddle to make them perform well—especially when accelerating from a dead stop.”
The key is to match a paddle to your personal skills and comfort (and this just ain’t that easy to do). Most of us end up with a first paddle that isn’t a good match for this reason. This is sad because the paddle is the interface between you and the water, and that is at least as important as hull design (IMO, slightly more so).
For long distance touring, a shorter paddle with a narrow blade can be really useful for maintaining a comfortable cadence. For moving/white water, where you have a comparatively wide boat (typically), a fatter blade for leverage against the water and for making quick moves is probably the way to go.
Note also that longer shafts = greater leverage and slower cadence, but that comes at a cost. The leverage point on the human body is the shoulder and which is a really weak joint that is easily damaged. A long lever vs. weak shoulder = trip to bahamas for your surgeon.
Rick
Yes… I Take Two Different Paddles
Being able to choose between two cadences beats the hell out of not having a choice. Turning into the wind? Switch to your lower gear.
Shuna and your wife
Pikabike says the one thing that I was thinking of below. It is a mid-sized blade officially. At 5’3.5" and 135 pounds it is probably an OK size for me (I really like my Cypress but it is cranky unless you use it high angle). But I am officially average for my generation in those dimensions.
The Shuna is a popualr blade and one of those that is never bad to have around, even if just a backup. But if your wife is tiny, you may want to go smaller than that for her if she would be with you on longer paddles.
the smaller is a safer bet
I have several paddling partners who own both. They use the bigger blade when acceleration is needed, playing in tiderips or surfing, and the smaller for longer flat water tours. There’s not any difference in touring speed only in sprint speed and acceleration.
Werner shafts are oval in the grip area.
According to the guys at Werner, the carbon, non-foam core, paddles are they best choice for abuse. The foam core, ikelos and cyprus, are the most fragile.
710
From your size and if you are fit go for the bigger blade. I am 59 and 6’ 225 and can paddle all day with the 710 Ikelos (same as Corry). I have 215 for low and 205 for high angle.
Shaft Length
Ok, I am convinced to go for the Shuna and I am getting ready to prepare the order.
One last question, shaft length, just how much difference will there really be between 210cm and 215cm. ( yes I know the answer is 5, lol)
My current paddle is adjustable 215->224 and on my last session, 2 hours, I left the paddle at 215. I ached a little but nothing that a hot bath didn’t cure. I have not paddled for any longer than 2 hours for the moment so in all honesty I dont know how well I will encompass 5 or 6hrs.
If I choose the 210 I am a little worried that I will frequently bang the paddle on the side of the boat or is that a sympton of bad technique. Even at 215cm I bang the side from time to time, usually when I lose concentration on body rotation.
I understand that the 215cm would give some extra leverage but as mentioned above could also cause unnecassary discomfort on the joints/tendons.
I would consider myself as having above average strength in my arms/shoulders/back, as I mentioned before I am about 205lbs although with some diet and some serious kayaking I should get down to a fighting fit 190lbs, I start to look unfed below that.
With the Shuna I will be making a drop from 690 to 610cm squared in the blade area which I presume will already make a large difference for me, would shortening the shaft from 215 to 210 really be necassary. The Werner paddle guide says I should go for the 210 but it doesn’t take anything into consideration other the height.
Get a two piece adjustable
Then decide and have the capability to change length on the fly.
Adjustable
That’s the main feature that I love about the paddle I have at the moment, its just a pity that Werner only do fixed length.
Hence the problem for me deciding on shaft length.
Try different sizes and shapes
Try some shorter paddles with smaller blades - you don’t need to put maximum force per paddle stroke to be most efficient moving through the water. Many novice kayakers run into joint/shoulder/tendon problems from trying to drive too big/long a paddle. It’s finesse and technique that make the difference not brute force.
Take a look at greenland style paddles.
Take a look at Onno paddles.
The damage is done
Et voila, I digress, I will stop trying to convince myself that physical power is my only attribute. I agree that I will now be forced to work more on technique.
I have ordered the Shuna 210cm. I will give some feedback at the end of the week if I can get out on the water. It snowed quite heavily here yesterday evening and I have to hope that it won’t snow any more this week.
Thanks to all for their feedback, it is heartily welcomed.