…or a big fan and blow it out of the shop. Or dust collection system.
I’m going to argue in favor of building your own. While it certainly helps to have all the tools and woodworking experience, taking your time on a boat project can be very rewarding. I’ve built quite a few (canoes mostly, but I did build a SUP a couple of winters ago). I don’t think cost needs to be prohibitive if you take your time and look around some. I built a Wee Lassie once using old redwood 2x6 decking that was being replaced, and it came out beautifully. Yes, you’ll be out a couple of hundred bucks for resins and cloth, but even those can be found fairly inexpensively on the internet.
Perhaps the best thing about building your own is the freedom it allows you. I had a Sawyer Shockwave years ago that I always regretted selling. After looking without any luck for years for a used one (and they’re not making any new ones!), I built myself one, and was able to take some liberties with it (I narrowed it and stretched it a bit). Granted, it took a while to track down plans for a Shockwave, but I now have a light, fast, beautiful boat that is a joy to paddle, that certainly cost me a fraction of what a new kevlar Wenonah Voyager sells for.
@ptickner said:
I’m going to argue in favor of building your own. While it certainly helps to have all the tools and woodworking experience, taking your time on a boat project can be very rewarding. I’ve built quite a few (canoes mostly, but I did build a SUP a couple of winters ago). I don’t think cost needs to be prohibitive if you take your time and look around some. I built a Wee Lassie once using old redwood 2x6 decking that was being replaced, and it came out beautifully. Yes, you’ll be out a couple of hundred bucks for resins and cloth, but even those can be found fairly inexpensively on the internet.Perhaps the best thing about building your own is the freedom it allows you. I had a Sawyer Shockwave years ago that I always regretted selling. After looking without any luck for years for a used one (and they’re not making any new ones!), I built myself one, and was able to take some liberties with it (I narrowed it and stretched it a bit). Granted, it took a while to track down plans for a Shockwave, but I now have a light, fast, beautiful boat that is a joy to paddle, that certainly cost me a fraction of what a new kevlar Wenonah Voyager sells for.
Beautiful!
You know if I won the lottery maybe I would commission an experienced kayak builder to build me a wooden kayak because that’s what the labor costs. It’s insane, For research purposes I asked one of the wood manufacturers out of curiosity what it would cost to build a wooden boat and given that most people of such skillset will charge at least $100 an hour it would be in the ~$10,000 range just for labor. I love the look but then I would be totally terrified to take it such an expensive thing anywhere lest it be scratched.
The average wage now is something like 22 dollars an hour so maybe it’s not as bad but still 22x 80-120 hours is a lot of money and when you build there is no guarantee you’re doing it right at all. Add that and all the other baloneys you need to purchase you’re not saving any money at all even if all you plan to do is to paddle. Maybe the only crew for which this is not an issue is retired people living on fixed income who have enormous amounts of disposable time on their hands but IMHO working at your day job and paying a kayak company for a high end composite, or the previous owner for his used high end composite if you want to save is a much better deal in all regards. Worst comes to worst a used kayak can be sold for more or less what you paid unless it sustains serious wear, tear or damage.
Let your budget be your guide but when you start building your own you invoke the SMALL FORTUNE proverbial saying.
A great way to make a small fortune is to start with a bigger one and build a boat because even though you have wood skills you don’t have boat building skills and the number of boats you need to build to bring you up to par that it’s a lot cheaper to just buy rather than build. That said you’ll learn a lot building your own. I learned a lot from having my stupid friend build me one, first off to never build anything ever again because what you can buy nowadays for the money is so good at all levels unless you love to sand for hours on end you’re just wasting your time (and money).
CA139
I’ve always loved this boat.
http://www.redfishkayak.com/king.htm
Your ±10K might get one of his boats when all said and done.
Which is not bad when a high tech production boat is near half that…
CA139 - I’m sorry your boat building experience left such a bad taste in your mouth. Can you buy a used composite for less than the cost of building a comparable wooden boat? Of course, sometimes. I bought a used $3600 carbon fiber/kevlar downriver race boat for $350 because it is a niche boat and not the easiest to paddle for most people. Almost new boats can sometimes be found incredibly cheaply. In your first post you mentioned people building wooden boats for the pleasure of building them, and I think that is an important part of the equation, and one that is hard to quantify. I happen to have shop space and tools, which makes it a lot easier for me. I’m not retired, but have chosen to make it a hobby, and make time for it. The average American watches more than 5 hours of TV or video screens per day. An NFL game is more than 3 hours, and there were more than 70 episodes of Game of Thrones. An hour or two a day should be pretty easy to free up if someone wanted.
I guess I feel that building wooden boats doesn’t have to prohibitively expensive, as I talked about in my earlier post, or only for the retired. It is something you have to commit to, and spend a little time learning the ropes, and talk to others who have done it before. Learn from their mistakes. And if someone is spending more than half their time sanding, they should have spent a little more time getting their wood to fit better. Taking your time in the beginning and while fitting pieces can cut sanding times dramatically!
Building my S&G (tape and glue) took all my leisure time for 3 months. Other costs: shop vac filters, I know I replaced at least 5. Resin dust kind of cures in there. I had the orbital on the vacuum always. I had portable dust collection as well, and would not even think of the process without it. It turned out superb and I would paddle it open ocean anytime.
I followed the manual written by Mark Rogers building the Arctic Hawk Sea Kayak. It’s 450 pages and he defined the process where you work pretty steady on some aspect of the finished project while waiting for cures, etc. He tells you when to go on coffee break…
I never spent 10k on a boat but I posted the hard numbers for the OP to compare and in the end because the decision to build vs buy should invoke the “WHAT IS YOUR TIME WORTH” question. But unfortunately a reputable boatbuilder’s time, usually valued at $100 an hour is not what you or I could charge unless I am talking with a reputable boatbuilder who is known and trusted and does this for a living.
I just looked up the Wenonah Voyager in Kevlar brand new costs $2,800 which doesn’t seem like a lot of money to me. A wood kit would be ~$1,200, the extras another $600 and we are assuming the dust settles there. Assuming the median income in the USA is $22/hr spending 80-120 hours to try and save just $1,000 does not make economic sense unless you enjoy those 80-120 hours and don’t mind taking the risk your first several boats will paddle lousy because you’ll have done them wrong.
For OP
https://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/blog/admin/so_you_want_build_and_sell_boats
Fascinating posts!
This is one of those classic “not for everyone” arenas. Only a minority will budget the tools and time here. Then there are the space requirements and dust issues. I do quite a bit of my own general woodworking (three bathrooms, kitchen cabinets, decks and a lot of our furniture). Friends always ask me why I don’t try doing this for money? My answer is always the same: I do good custom work but I am very, very slow. If I was doing this professionally I would be making $3 an hour. I would also hate the pressure of deadlines and the repetition. The biggest negative with woodworking is dust…
In my paddling heyday, people would ask why I didn’t guide trips full time. The answer was always “I don’t want to ruin my hobby”. Same with building.
Hobbies are relaxing; business not so much.
I would like to bring up something that has slipped through the cracks, likely because the conversation was shaped by the craigslist strip built Nick Schade kayak. To build a kayak such as that woodworking tools and some expertise - not mention lots of time - are necessary. However, I don’t want readers here to think this is the only option for building a wood kayak.
There are several companies (CLC and Pygmy are two) who offer what’s known as stitch and glue kits that require few tools (a block plane being the only woodworking tool necessary) and only patience to assemble. You do not have to be a woodworker. I built a Pygmy Murrelet 2PD in a fraction of the time it takes for a strip built. While it is a different beastie completely, the results are beautiful. I can’t take Awen anywhere without getting noticed - especially from Chris-Caft enthusiasts for some reason. There are also company sponsored build classes that happen across the country if anyone wants to build with expert guidance.
I do agree that many first time builders over-do the epoxy probably because of the myth that wooden kayaks are somehow fragile. And that is a myth. Wooden kayaks should be treated just like fiberglass ones. Basically you have 3mm thick Okoume plywood encased in fiberglass. And they can be fixed in the home shop. The first scratch breaks your heart and then you get over it!
I surf my Pygmy, I’m taking her rock hopping in Rhode Island this summer, I’ve bushwhacked up Potomac river tributaries and taken her on overnight camping trips. My husband has even dropped her once (he did get an earful over that!). Most of the scratches are just in the varnish and even the deeper ones that go through to the cloth are an easy patch until her winter spruce up. I did put a kevlar keel strip on during last winter’s maintenance. A small price to pay for a 17’ kayak that weighs 34# fitted out.
As to why folks sell their home-built wood 'yaks. Probably the same reasons people sell any kayak: too many, paddling styles change, want something new, moving. There could be another reason though. If you don’t paddle the model before you build it, you may not like the beastie after it’s finished.
I disagree that a block plane is the only tool needed. You also need a sander, whether hand block or ROS. You need a saw to cut the deck to make the hatch openings, such as a jig saw. If you make your own seat out of minicell foam, you also need shaping tools, such as the funky metal thing that looks like a curved cheese grater. A wire cutter to snip the roll of copper wire for stitching.
The boat I made was from a S&G kit. Sure, it takes less time than strips, but if you really are a beginner at making stuff (I was), it takes a lot more time than the kit estimates say!
Also, look carefully at what the finished weights include. The kit instructions might call for only one glass layer in some places, or none at all. Weights of rigging, seat, and other items must be added to compare commercial kayaks with homebuilt ones.
My kit called for a full layer of standard glass outside plus one such layer on the inside of the hull. Inside deck was supposed to be either no glass or a lighter glass. I forget which, but I glassed the entire inside also, AND I put a second layer of glass on the hull interior.
Even if I had not been a rank newbie to building, the boat would have weighed probably 5 lbs more than the 40 lbs depicted.
A serious advantage of buying the kit instead of building from plans arises when you do not live where the proper wood can be obtained. This is not the OP’s case. However, I knew someone who bought plans to build the same boat I got the kit for. He had woodworking expertise. Unfortunately, he could not get the 4mm okuome plywood to save his life, which he found out AFTER buying the plans. I called around out of curiosity and found the same thing—no way either of us could get the plywood anywhere in our part of the country. He said he wished he had bought the kit, because it included everything.
I built a catamaran from plans and had 3mm ply shipped from Maryland to Florida… You can find either marine or aircraft quality.
The kits do make it easier.
My concern was that a reader investigating wood kayaks for the first time would envision the need for expensive woodworking tools that require expertise to use and be put off. That would be unfortunate as there is great satisfaction to be had paddling a kayak you built with your own hands.
A random orbital sander (ROS) is a $90 investment (although not completely necessary if you’d like to build some arm muscles!) hardly in the same league as the table saws, band saws and kerf saws such as you would need building a striper from scratch. Not to mention the dedicated space to house all those things. Strip kits require fewer tools as the mill work has been done but still require a good skill set to get things lined up on the forms, patterns worked out, etc.
A hand sanding block is necessary for tight areas; I cut my hatches with a bonsai knife (hand knife that cuts on the pull instead of the push) that cost $17 from CLC. It offers a lot more control than a jig saw. A pair of wire cutters isn’t much of an investment either - many folks might even have those laying around the house. Heck, you’ll likely spend more on sandpaper than on the above tools! Most kits have seat options so you don’t have to use a surform to carve one. CLC offers a variety of reasonable priced low profile foam seats.
You are correct that you should look at what the kit weight includes. The weight I sited for my Pygmy was stated as fully fitted - in other words hatches & bulkheads, seats, deck lines. She accurately weighs in at 34.5#. Specs are 36# (without bulkheads or deck lines) but I did more substantial fillets instead of the end pours which saved several pounds of thickened epoxy. If you chose to add extra glass to your build then, then of course you have to factor that in as well.
I still believe it takes more patience than skills to build a stitch and glue - at least a Pygmy. I did take a class to build mine. Of the 6 people in my class, one was a woodworker, two of us had some rough carpentry skills and the others didn’t know a packing knife from a piece of sandpaper. In 6 days we built our hull and deck, attached the two and then car topped them home to do the finishing work - outside epoxy & glassing, coaming, sanding, bulkheads, cutting the hatches and varnish. That took me another two months but only because I wasn’t able to work on the kayak full time…and I was scared stiff to make that first hatch cut! Yiiikes!
Everyone’s build experience will be different and ample research should be done to make sure the kit and your expectations are going to set you up for a fulfilling experience.
I built 2 canoes from plans using 1/4" plywood from Home Depot. Surprisingly, it had few voids and was Fairly easy to work with.
Neither was an award winner , but were watertight and floated. It was an interesting experience .
I built my first (and possibly only) wood strip Redfish Spring Run (16’9") 12 years ago and have paddled in creeks, rivers, lakes, and ocean. All the previous comments (KayakerBee) on tools are spot on. A good respirator and Pull Saw is essential, and patience is a key ingredient. Mine ended up at 42 lbs. in the water.and that was and still is fast on the straight and tracks true. Nick shade’s philosophy to “…get it in the water…” is also good advice. From ten feet away the craft is perfect and a still a head turner. Only the builder will notice the flaws. I’ve dropped it, run into and over rocks, and repaired holes but have never worried about the boat it as I knew exactly how to repair.
I have built ten woodstrip boats. It is a hobby and really doesn’t cost all that much. It does take time, but after the first one, it gets easier. You need a variety of wood working tools and not have a fear of epoxy. You can build up layers of glass cloth to protect the underside of the bow and stern.
You will get tired of people telling you how pretty they are. You will also be amazed by the ignorance of many. My favorite is being told that I have to oil it weekly and teak oil is expensive.
I have yet to buy a plan for any of the boats I have built, that is half of the hobby, designing them.
You can build a cedar strip boat that weighs half of what rotomolded plastic does and about 2/3 of what fiberglass does. Comparable weight to some specialty boats, like Westside boat shop.
You will go broke if you try to sell them. People just don’t understand the value of grace and beauty anymore.
They are right about teak oil being expensive B)
1st photo maiden voyage, She was stunning. Other photos, not so much.
But like DGWinters said they repair easy.
Everyone keeps leaving out what for me is the most important aspect of building your own boat, at least in my opinion. That is the fact that you can build for performance and can tailor the performance to your capabilities. I have built several kayaks and have well over 1000 miles on my favorite. That is because It’s easy to stack up the miles when your boat is faster. Your back country paddles can take in a lot more scenery when you go 15 miles instead of the 2 you are likely to do in a plastic rec boat. I normally paddle narrow shallow rivers in the Central Florida area and because of that I have scraped over countless logs and not a few alligators. These high performance wooden kayaks are not only beautiful they are also lighter than a plastic or fiberglass boat and quite durable.
As to the question of their worth? I sold one for $8K but that was a special event. Mostly I look at building boats as a hobby where I spend an hour of so a night creating my next boat instead of spending that time sitting in front of the TV. When it’s finished I sell the old boat for the cost of materials. I never plan finish date on any build because it suddenly changes from a hobby to a job.
Kyle T
