@qajaqman said:
In the article I posted they were downstream and got sucked upstream.
That seems more likely to me - the reversal on the downstream side of a dam that big must be pretty powerful, and why would anyone paddle close to the gates on the upstream side.
@qajaqman said:
@Allan Olesen said:
@qajaqman said:
L2 is not experienced,
[…]
I would consider a graduate of that class a better-informed beginner.What would you consider the coach of that class? That is what is relevant here.
I dont think either was an instructor.) I thought that was an error in one of the articles.
Both were ACA certified at L2, as posted here Jan 14
L2 means students, not instructors, if I recall the ACA certs correctly.
In ACA parlance, “L” usually simply denotes “level”. Here are the baseline physical requirements and instructional expertise expected of an “ACA Level 2: Essentials of Kayak Touring” Instructor Candidate:
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/aca.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/sei-courses/l2_ekt_instcrit.pdf
As you can see, at this particular level, what is expected of the instructor is some mastery of basic flat water strokes, rescue and re-entry techniques, and flat water safety issues and hazards, although weather and tide conditions, signaling devices, boat traffic issues, charts, and float plans are also part of the curriculum.
But basically nothing mentioned about dynamic moving water hazards.
It is not until “ACA Level 4: Coastal Kayaking” that the following skills are required:
kayak roll
Negotiate Moderate Wind & Sea Conditions
Paddling comfort in moderate seas
Ability to paddle in a head sea / beam sea / quartering sea / following sea
Ability to turn up and down wind efficiently
Ability to hold position
Negotiate Moderate Surf
Launch & land forward
Launch & land backward
Surf, broach and side surf
Negotiate Moderate Current
Establish ferry angle (forward & reverse)
Control peeling out / eddy turns
Kayak Tripping:
Day Trips: show evidence of at least three or more day trips of at least 12-15 nautical miles in various conditions
Multi Day Trips: Show evidence of at least one multi-day journey involving overnight camping
http://cdn.ymaws.com/www.americancanoe.org/resource/resmgr/SEI-Courses/L4_OWCK_Assessment.pdf
@Celia said:
L2 means students, not instructors, if I recall the ACA certs correctly.
Kevin Beatty is listed as a certified L2 instructor on the ACA website: https://www.americancanoe.org/members/?id=36922164&hhSearchTerms="Beatty"
I guess l did not recall what L means. That said, Pblanc explanation doesn’t sound like someone who would have yet experienced a broad,mix of more challenging big, or moving, water conditions.
@Rookie said:
@qajaqman said:
@Allan Olesen said:
@qajaqman said:
L2 is not experienced,
[…]
I would consider a graduate of that class a better-informed beginner.What would you consider the coach of that class? That is what is relevant here.
I dont think either was an instructor.) I thought that was an error in one of the articles.
Both were ACA certified at L2, as posted here Jan 14
I remember you posting that info, but you said “Kevin Beatty, the survivor, is a certified L2, coastal kayak, essentials of kayak touring. Also completed the skills assessment for coastal kayaking L3”
Since you did not say he was an instructor I assumed they were both merely certified L2 paddlers. But I appreciate the clarification
@Allan Olesen said:
@qajaqman said:
L2 is not experienced,
[…]
I would consider a graduate of that class a better-informed beginner.What would you consider the coach of that class? That is what is relevant here.
I would consider them capable of teaching raw beginners to become better informed beginners, but not much more. One of the things in a possible L2 course includes training about hazards and obstructions including dams.
https://c.ymcdn.com/sites/aca.site-ym.com/resource/.../sei-courses/l2_ekt_skills.pdf
but I don’t see that its madatory. Maybe these guys weren’t taught about dam dangers in their instructor cert, which would be scary because then they wouldn’t teach their students either. Hard to say, and I don’t want to make any assumptions.
I don’t have high regard for certifications. Plenty of very good, smart, safe paddlers get them and plenty more learn the same things other ways. There certainly have been a number of certified instructor incidents that I’m aware of in recent years that give me some pause.
There was only minimal exposure to, and discussion of moving water in my Paddle Canada L2. To the best of my knowledge, this is roughly equivalent to the ACA L2.
I’ve picked up much more on my own, and when I went to the BOFSKS.
@qajaqman said:
Maybe these guys weren’t taught about dam dangers in their instructor cert, which would be scary because then they wouldn’t teach their students either. Hard to say, and I don’t want to make any assumptions.
I don’t have high regard for certifications. Plenty of very good, smart, safe paddlers get them and plenty more learn the same things other ways. There certainly have been a number of certified instructor incidents that I’m aware of in recent years that give me some pause.
They had to have been taught that as the ACA Level 2 Essentials of Kayak Touring includes the following under safety and rescue: “Hazards: wind, waves, weather, current, rocks, bridges, piers, dams, strainers, traffic.”
But oddly such hazards aren’t mentioned in the instructor criteria: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.americancanoe.org/resource/resmgr/sei-courses/l2_ekt_instcrit.pdf
The article you cited stated:
“The men, along with two other kayakers, were paddling southeast of the dam on a sunny January day when temperatures rose into the 50s. Chicoine and Beatty got too close to the stilling basin, where water pours from Lake Red Rock through the dam gates. It’s extremely turbulent, Tracy Spry, a park ranger with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, said Tuesday. ‘The water has an immense amount of force, and if you get beyond that restricted area, there are chances you can get drawn in,’ Spry said.”
Terrible consequences from a lapse in judgment, risk assessment, and situational awareness.
As to certified instructors, I like that they all have to undergo training and testing. But they’re all different and I think have different levels of safety concerns. During one class a L4 coastal kayak instructor had us practice with a contact tow. When I worked with an L5 coach, he checked my boat and disapproved of the contact tow (he doesn’t use one). It was all about safety, so now I wear my tow belt instead.
Getting taught EFFECTIVELY about dams and circulating current in a useful way usually means being put into it. Even in small side tributaries under railroad bridges south of Troy, we have had groups where someone has to be towed thru because they weren’t ready for the force of the tide. And the usual tide height is only about 3 feet and a few inches.
We have lots of smaller examples here where there are dams and industrial development and branches of the Hudson and Mohawk as they come together. There are spots for someone to get a lesson close into the cities where there is little risk of something fatal, just getting useful egg on their face. But that is not so in many areas.
Military had a saying in the old days One “awh sh…t” wipes out ten “atta-boys”. It doesn’t matter what certifications you have or paddles you’ve done ……… one bad decision can wipe all that away.
@Rookie said:
@qajaqman said:
Maybe these guys weren’t taught about dam dangers in their instructor cert, which would be scary because then they wouldn’t teach their students either. Hard to say, and I don’t want to make any assumptions.
I don’t have high regard for certifications. Plenty of very good, smart, safe paddlers get them and plenty more learn the same things other ways. There certainly have been a number of certified instructor incidents that I’m aware of in recent years that give me some pause.
They had to have been taught that as the ACA Level 2 Essentials of Kayak Touring includes the following under safety and rescue: “Hazards: wind, waves, weather, current, rocks, bridges, piers, dams, strainers, traffic.”
But oddly such hazards aren’t mentioned in the instructor criteria: https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.americancanoe.org/resource/resmgr/sei-courses/l2_ekt_instcrit.pdf
They aren’t required in the paddler cert either. I said I wasn’t certain they were taught about dams because those topics you mention including dam dangers are at the discretion of the instructor
" The content and sequence of instruction should be adjusted to best fit the participant’s needs, class location and time allowance."
I dont know how they actually teach it-maybe they always include the dam hazard section, maybe not-but the way its worded does not suggest to me that teaching about dam hazards is mandatory.
The ACA L2: Essentials of Kayak Touring is an eight hour introductory course. Here is the student curriculum:
http://cdn.ymaws.com/www.americancanoe.org/resource/resmgr/SEI-Courses/L2_EKT_Skills.pdf
Given the breadth of topics mentioned and the time constraints, I think it is clear that a good portion of this course is going to consist of talking about a wide range of topics, and most of the rest is going to be an introduction to basic strokes and some rescue techniques. I strongly suspect the dam hazard section of this course is limited to being told “Don’t run dams”.
Granted, as a general rule instructors would be expected to have more expertise than a student who completes this curriculum, but not necessarily a great deal more. A lot of the selection process for ACA instructors is geared toward finding individuals who are effective teachers.
One of the two is likely to end up being a very effective teacher on the hazards of dams.