CG Sickler is undoubtedly not a kayaker and was probably being especially polite/sensitive because of the severity of the tragedy and it was way too soon for victim blaming with the sole survivor losing her entire family. Perhaps he’s even ignorant of what true kayak preparedness is, although being CG you’d expect he might know that stuff.
They do not “lose 1 per month” in the Apostles or anything near that, but I’m surprised they don’t lose a lot more based on general level of unpreparedness. I believe Its been a few years since anyone died in a kayaking incident there.
@qajaqman said:
he was probably being especially polite/sensitive because of the severity of the tragedy and it was way too soon for victim blaming with the sole survivor losing her entire family
I was thinking this same thing. I can not fathom her loss and pain. I worry about her, and hope and pray she can recover from the grief, likely self blame, and overwhelming guilt she must feel. I think he probably choose kindness over accuracy. I really think they had no idea what the potential was for a tragic outcome they were facing when heading out. This is such a heart wrenching outcome.
Thanks to above. I had not thought of the position that CG officer must have been in trying to get by the moment with someone looking for a quote. So yes, err on the side of kindness.
On the one per month, perhaps the person was including successful recoveries (as in paddler found alive) in the summer months June thru early Sept.
@Celia said:
perhaps the person was including successful recoveries (as in paddler found alive) in the summer months June thru early Sept.
as in my neck of the woods, I paddled the lagoon on Friday night (actually pre-dawn Sat), apparently these folks were there Sunday night.
(btw - the bioluminescence was brilliant (I wonder it that’s what they were after))
This was incredibly tragic, but this example of poor judgement really makes you wonder if we do not need higher standards of training. Regardless of the news reports this family was neither “experienced” or properly trained. It also calls in to question how safe some of these discount store kayaks really are. Not that it would have been too much of a factor here as the boat in question was completely overloaded, but when you look at them, you wonder how this does not happen more often. Most of the sit ins have no crush protection or flotation to speak of and no way to attach a spray skirt. What’s more, some of these tandems actually look like canoes given the huge cockpit. Maybe they need to start coming with the maximum number of passengers painted on the side.
Well Rookie even the Apostle Islands safety link is pretty lame. It does advise checking the weather forecast and not overloading boats but misses the risks around cold water. Anyway, it just occurs to me that basic safety guidelines for paddlers should fit on a “one page checklist”…like a single PowerPoint slide or a simple pocket card. There aren’t that many key bullet points! Boat capacity, pfd, self rescue capability, water temperature, weather forecast, communication devices, signaling devices, ? Maybe the ACA already has something.
People have to care for any amount of education to make a difference. Most people don’t like to be told they’re doing (or are about to do) something dangerous or foolish. I was bothered by the last few lines of the Cold Water Safety comments that discouraged “victim blaming”. Who else is at fault here?
@PaddleDog52 said:
Manufacturer will be sued up the wazoo and lose.
I’ll bet they have enough warnings on product and/or packaging to cover their wazoos. Even if they don’t, this one goes beyond reasonable expectation of safe product use.
@TomL said:
Well Rookie even the Apostle Islands safety link is pretty lame. It does advise checking the weather forecast and not overloading boats but misses the risks around cold water. Anyway, it just occurs to me that basic safety guidelines for paddlers should fit on a “one page checklist”…like a single PowerPoint slide or a simple pocket card. There aren’t that many key bullet points! Boat capacity, pfd, self rescue capability, water temperature, weather forecast, communication devices, signaling devices, ? Maybe the ACA already has something.
Agree simplicity is best, but there’s always the challenge of getting people to read (and comprehend) the info before heading out.
While the NPS at Apostle Islands does recommend dry/wet suits, the NPS at Pictured Rocks does a much better job overall https://www.nps.gov/piro/planyourvisit/kayaking.htm
I wonder why there is such a difference.
The ACA does have a safety list: https://www.americancanoe.org/page/Top_10
I don’t know if it’s contained in their “Paddle Safely” app because the iOS and Android reviews of the app are so bad I’ve never downloaded it.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Manufacturer will be sued up the wazoo and lose.
I’ll bet they have enough warnings on product and/or packaging to cover their wazoos. Even if they don’t, this one goes beyond reasonable expectation of safe product use.
@Sparky961 said:
I was bothered by the last few lines of the Cold Water Safety comments that discouraged “victim blaming”. Who else is at fault here?
Someone must be blamed? If we have to lay blame somewhere then Ignorance is the culprit in my view. Only ignorance of the law does not excuse the crime, not ignorance in general. If it was how many of us would be criminals? I have not seen where the CG have said these folks had broken the law.
Yes I agree that they could have avoided this tragedy if they had realized they needed to learn more about what they were getting into. They did take precautions though, such as everyone wearing a PFD. Apparently they had met the legal requirement to also have a flashlight if on the water after dark, and I bet they carried a whistle as I have had PFDs come with them when purchased. These are the minimum requirements for kayakers in my state by law. They most likely met these. I am sure that is were most people end their education of water safety, by reading the DNR regulations. I also think they felt safe on the “unsinkable” boat they were using. I suspect if someone who knew the danger had approached them with this knowledge they might well have reconsidered. If such a person didn’t try to warn them would they share the blame?
Let’s say someone is having great difficulty recovering and considering ending their life because of the trauma. Should they be handled with care? If blaming them then pushes them to act, should those that blamed them be at fault for the ignorance they displayed?
I happen to agree with the Cold Water Safety comment that blaming the individuals who don’t know they are getting in over their head is not productive. What would be productive is for those of us with greater experience and knowledge of water safety share this knowledge with those that are taking risks they don’t understand regardless of their reaction to it. For us to reach out to the reporters, and pass this knowledge on to them so they can add it to their reporting of tragedies like this. These things are of value. Blaming the survivors accomplishes nothing of value in my opinion.
First they have to get an attorney to take the case. Product liability cases get very expensive to prove
Absent hard evidence the SOT somehow came apart at the seams because of a manufacturing defect and sank, there is no negligence on the part of whoever manufactured it nor is there any report supporting such a theory. Were it to ever come to a lawsuit, the defense team would spare no details in describing the negligence of the adults who were responsible for this tragedy. I work in the legal field and believe me, this is not a case one would want in front of a jury because of the manner of death of those three little kids.
If anyone has a negligence case, it’s the mother of the eldest child, the 9-year old who was the daughter of Mr. Fryman and step-daughter of Ms. Mews. There are two mothers and extended families trying to deal with their anguish.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Attorneys will jump at this case for free.
Attorneys have to pay the filing costs and hire the experts, depose all involved and get it to trial all $$$$. The product ins co. will drive costs way up. An atty. working for FREE will have to pay these costs up front hoping to collect on a win.
I don’t think any will jump at this one for FREE.
@castoff said:
I happen to agree with the Cold Water Safety comment that blaming the individuals who don’t know they are getting in over their head is not productive.
Little else has worked. I say we give this a go.
Public shaming is a very effective behavior modifier.
Public shaming/public bullying may indeed modify behavior, but not necessarily in the way you suggest. Do you really think it has an educational value, and would cure ignorance? It isn’t like it hasn’t been tried in the past. It has greater potential for harm than good. It hearkens back to the Scarlet Letter which really had little effect on how people acted. They just got ostracized when caught. A classic case of victim blaming. Let us instead try the inquisition for surely that will modified behavior! I believe you just enjoy pulling peoples chain.
We have both made our point. I’ll leave it at that.
I came across this at the National Center for Cold Water Safety
A Deadly Predator
Every year, warm air temperatures lure people into taking small boats out onto lethally cold water, where a large number of them capsize or fall in - and drown. These folks aren’t stupid, or intentionally reckless, and many are good swimmers; they simply have the misfortune of falling into a exceptionally lethal and well-camouflaged trap.
Cold water is a predator - fast, powerful and deadly, with unlimited energy and no need for sleep. A predator so perfectly camouflaged that you can stand right next to it and see absolutely nothing dangerous - just a sparkling invitation to get out on the water and have some fun.
The victims are fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, grandfathers and grandmothers - none of whom expected to die when they went out that final time.
Cold water preys on the unsuspecting, the unwary, and the careless, but it also lurks offshore, waiting patiently for those with plenty of experience who don’t take it seriously.