thoughts on liquid logic remix xp 10

have interest in getting one, have a CD BREEZE, WS PUNGO 140, love both, looking for new ride. i am 6ft. 4in. 250lbs. average self-rescue skills. would like to be able to roll by summer months, any advise.

Looked like it would be fun …

– Last Updated: Apr-17-10 2:21 PM EST –

If I lived in river country and was thinking about doing long down stream paddles on Class II I would be really interested in this boat.

I demoed it and it's a bit wide for whitewater boat ... I think 28" and my whitewater boat is ~24". So not as maneuverable and I did not try to roll it. Likely will be a bit more tricky to learn to roll in, but you can probably learn in a narrower boat and it should roll easily enough once you have technique, it may roll very well when loaded.

It's not going to paddle as fast as a sea kayak, but if you want to go down river with gear it looked interesting/ There are other boats like this out there so look around a bit and try them out before you buy.

I know a lady from Norcal who did the Grand Canyon in one, I googled for pictures and did not find but came up with this ...


Why this boat?
I just checked your profile, and it doesn’t include any moving water in a kayak. Or are you planning to get out of the raft and try some of that, hence the interest in this boat?

The hybrids are what they are, a little talent in moving water and a little hull speed compared to a play boat for the flats. But they won’t do either as well as a more dedicated boat for that purpose. If you are thinking WW, you might get more out of the experience by getting a river runner. You already have boats for the flats anyway - what you get next doesn’t really need to handle that environment.

If you are thinking of a boat to learn to roll in, maybe look around for a used Dagger RPM in your size. They are all over the place, dirt cheap and suit that purpose well.

It’s usually not too hard to find newer used boats from the WW clubs. These folks don’t suffer from excessive loyalty to a given boat - the affair is often only one summer long.

From what I have seen of the prettier
rivers in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, and Illinois, the XP10 is actually a better choice than a touring kayak like my Looksha Sport. The XP10 draws less water than touring or rec kayaks short enough for twisty rivers.

I think the OP hasn’t told us all he could about what he hopes to do in the future. And even if he picked up a used playboat and a used touring boat, the XP10 would still do things the other boats can’t.

OPer doesn’t have flat water boats that would be easy to outfit for rolling, and in mixed environments with a little class II WW mixed with sections of little current, the hybrids would suit quite nicely. It’s just not clear that this is why they are looking in that direction.

xp 10
wanting kayak with quicker responce,some room for over-nighter,up to light class III WW, mostly paddle class I,II, ability to play a little

The XP10
is a fantastic boat for the class I/II rivers with FW in between drops. IMO…the best of the crossovers. I am a class II(III) paddler and this boat will handle anything that I have the skill to run. Bad Ass outfitting is the best.I rarely use the drop skeg but it is nice to have when you need it. I too am in the early stages of learning to roll. I will use my Pyranha Karnali until I get it down and then try to roll the XP10 once the technique is better. I am 6’ 230lbs. The XP10 is a big boy boat (after all Woody DID design it:) with room to carry extra stuff if you want.

…I was able to test paddle this boat for about 15 minutes. I have no experience in WW/hybrid/creeker style boats at all. This boat will spin on a dime! with skeg down, it tracked very well but i would say not great, I still had to carefully watch my paddling technique. With skeg up I had a hard time keeping it from swapping ends! I kept “spinning out” to the right and I’m right handed by nature. My fault, never been in such a boat before and i don’t think my paddling technique/skills where anywheres near correct for a boat like this. It is because of my poor skills that i learned how easily this boat will spin. All that aside, I enjoyed the boat and I too , am considering acquiring one. The boat did not feel “big” at all. At no time did the boat feel tippy to me. I’m 5’7" and 195#.

"Spinning out" is very common when folks first try to paddle whitewater boats. I helped teach a beginner class for a few years, and it was rare that someone could go more than a few boat lengths in a straight line when they started.

A few pointers;

Don’t use a paddle that’s too long.

Sit up straight – no slumping.

Head up, eyes forward.

Keep the paddle close to the boat.

Put the paddle in as far forward as you can – up bu your toes-- and don’t pull past your hip.

Don’t wait until the bow is way off line to correct – it’ll be too late. Make small adjustments with every stroke.

Take shorter, quicker strokes instead of long slow ones.

Long boat/short boat time
Like angstrom said, everything happens in smaller confines and with less recovery time in a WW boat than a long boat. Part of the reason that WW paddles run shorter. But you’d be surprised how quickly you get used to this is you just slow down at first, take shorter less strong strokes, and watch the effect of what you do.

I know the next time I have a chance to get into my WW boat in anything actually moving, I’ll spend the first 20 minutes getting my head out of “long boat time”. It’s just different.

The bonus is that once you get comfortable paddling a whitewater boat in a straight line, every other kayak seems to tracks amazingly well!

same here
every time I get back into the Dagger Blast I wish I could get paddle stroke amnesia.

Very good tips, thanks angstrom.

I tried a sit-in w. an EXP9 (not 10) it was reallllly big & deep on me even compared to the Perception SuperSport I used to have. Therefore the Blast. But a very cool concept.

OP you might also try the Pyranha Fusion w. the Connect (ww) option in outfitting. They also offer a touring option, a little less aggressive.

Another hybrid. Eyeballed one in the shop, maybe it’ll be at demo day next weekend.

I purchased this boat about a month ago and only have limited experience with it. I bought it to use mainly on rocky rivers and delta areas. I build my own boats and have several long boats for the bigger water. At 6’2", 210#, this boat is almost too big for me but the XP9 would have been too small. This boat is a fun boat and for your stated purposes would serve you well IMO. My limited experience with this boat indicates that you can paddle it at about 3mph on flat water pretty easily or you can paddle really hard and get it up to about 3.1mph. But who really cares, you’re not buying it to go fast right? It is a very comfortable boat and I love the skeg when I need it. It is a perfect boat IMO to take down rivers and explore with. Stability is off the charts; no problem taking photos etc. I did have a chore finding a spray skirt for it. Let me save you some trouble and tell you to purchase an IR Lucky Charm or Shockwave plus. The Lucky Charm is what I bought; it needed to be stretched out to get it on because it is a rand type skirt. The Shockwave is a bungee type and probably would go on easier but may not be as water tight. I tried several others and ended up sending them back so hopefully you can learn from my experience if you purchase an XP-10.

In summary this boat lives up to its hype. A very good crossover that can both track well and maneuver well.

Good luck

I am same size and weight as Original Poster. I just bought an XP10 after trying every boat I could get my hands on. I felt that ALL of the Pyranha boats were too low volume for me as they are all only 80 gallons. I liked the Jackson Villian and the Mega Rocker, but the XP10 was the only boat that made me feel immediately comfortable on class II-III water. It is SUPER stable and although it does not spin on a dime like the 8’ Jacksons, it turns pretty well. Due to the width and low flat profile it is not the easiest boat to roll, and I blew my first couple trys.

I am looking at this boat as a good way to get used to moving water. Once I get more comfortable in whitewater I will probably want to move up to a “real” whitewater boat, but at my current skill level this boat makes me look forward to rough water, not afraid of it.

Another plus to the XP10 is that with the drop skeg and super stability it makes a great flatwater “rec” type boat for my wife or kids to use. I dont think I could put my wife in a true WW boat to paddle around on a pond, but she will be just fine in the XP10