Why do you have to be powerful to
– Last Updated: Apr-21-07 7:11 PM EST –
handle a larger paddle? If you have a decent catch and good torso rotation why would it matter if you are a well-built 190 pound paddler or a skinny 150 pound paddler?
Very simply
because at the end of the day fast paddlers are also powerful physical specimens. Weak people will never be powerful paddlers. There’s a reason racers work out all the time with weights etc., in addition to paddling.
All the technique in the world will get you only so far. add power to great technique and you go fast.
That is a bit of fact that will disturb some.
But why do you need to be powerful
to put a 26 oz. paddle in the water and rotate your body? I can understand having strong abs and obliques (even legs); but what is the physics, as it relates to paddling, behind having powerful arms, chest, etc.? I’m not being contrary but rather seeking a rationale.
I’ll try
Think about it. You plant a blade and strive to move yourself/boat past it. You have to have the strength to do that. To the extent that you can exert more force on that effort the more energy you produce. Certainly great technique will outdo poor tech. and brute strength. But what happens when you combine both. Great distance and fast paddlers are strong people, regardless of size. Olympic paddlers do tons of strength training. What’s hard to grasp here?
And Bruce
for the paddling that most of us do you don’t need to be a physical monster. But, if you truly wanna haul ass you need to be stong and have great technique. Don’t take my word, ask good racers.
Good to hear
Actually latest I heard was even Doug’s style’s changed a bit over recent years…
No one has mentioned wing paddle yet
If you are interested in going faster that will guarantee to put you between a half mile and mile per hour faster than what you are using now.
On the length, I don’t think you are going to go faster with a longer paddle.
Stay with the shorter one and use a higher stroke.
Just my take!
Cheers,
JackL
Bowler1, the Molokai
The late and great Werner Molokai has a huge blade, and when I use mine it kills me:
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=985
I think your feelings about Cypress versus Ikelos is what you feel, man, and that is groovy. It’s all in what you feel. I re-read your initial post, and think that we’re all debating something that is really far out, man. I don;t really see the question, daddy-o. It’s all in what feels good to you. 210, 215, Cyoress, whatever! As long as you can put it in a pipe, why not just smoke it.
Why can’t we all just get along (R. King, 1998), and wait and see what bowler1 writes in his longhand style once he gets the 215 cm. Bowler1, please hit the water, please. Good vibrations to you all.
to sum up
two equally powerful paddlers? the one with better technique wins
two paddlers with equal technique? the more powerful paddler wins
you forgot
Two equally powerful paddlers with the exact technique, the one with the higher cadence wins.
Lyn
Big blades and power…
If anyone doubts why physical strength and power is necessary for a big bladed paddle…then they probably have not used one before. They provide a lot of resistance in the water and require some physical power to pull through the water and maintain a good cadence.
They will kick your ass if you are not in good shape too. Trust me.
Wing paddle…true that would be the way to go for speed. For me though I am not interested in a wing. I like to paddle fast and hard but love to many other aspects of the sport to go to a surf ski, a wing paddle, or a true “racing” boat like a QCC…no offense to anyone but it is just my style of paddling…I spend lots of time doing skills work, sculling bow rudders and other strokes that a wing would probably not be good for.
Again, my post is not really a question…just some thoughts and observations I made that were somewhat surprising to me that I want to test out. I will report on my findings.
Matt
MPH increase with wing paddles
Ref. “guarantee to put you between a half mile and mile per hour faster” I’d be interested to see where this info came from. I understand that racers use a wing to get an increase in speed but all the info I have seen is in small percentages not the huge percentage increase suggested by this, someone fill me in. My guess is that the wing encourages/forces a more efficient technique working on technique with a normal/euro blade would be of more use.
Ref. Paddle size. In some ways big paddles are like high gears on a bike a little too high you work hard lots to high you go no where.
To be efficient the blade needs to stay loaded, try putting a blade in the water and pulling very gently on it, the blade will move with little reaction from the kayak, it requires more strength to keep a big blade loaded.
I’m 6foot 200lbs (at least) and reasonably paddle fit I went from a lendal Nordkap and Mystic to a lendal archipelago with no loss of speed and gained some endurance (from the GPS, heart rate moniter and how I feel at the end of the day), the Mystic comes out for surf and rock gardens still but even then I’m not sure. I’ve coached much smaller paddlers who were unable to load their massive blades they had bought and consequently went no-where fast and got injured frequently. Bigger is not always better but sometimes it is.
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What about the gray areas? What if
someone has a 20% better technique but is 25% less powerful than another paddler? Are technique and power of equal weighting?
oooooo!!
you are responsible for the clumps of hair I just pulled out!
Wing faster…
I paddle with a wing and it is probably a few (1 or 2)tenths of a mile an hour faster due to the lift/thrust it generates as it sweeps out to the side. As previously mentioned, where the wing probably gains those other 1/2 to 1 mile an hour of guaranteed speed increase is that better techinique is mandatory, if you don’t use it properly the wing paddle will stall and you may easily go swimming. Lots of rotation keeps the blade arcing out from the hull.
At first the wing seemed like a high impact workout compared to my previous euro style paddles, when it is in its fully hooked up correct path through the water it is like pushing against a brick wall. Where the wing also helps with speed is when start to get tired, after thirty minutes (or maybe an hour) paddling full throttle, depending upon the boat say 6 mph plus, and you start to fatigue, the wing will keep you paddling with good technique including verticle and torso rotational power output and thus maintaining a higher speed.
Due to the exponential increase in power needed to go faster, when you are at 90% of hull speed, a two to five percent increase in speed needs significantly more input into the paddle stroke’s effectiveness and power is huge. If you paddle at a more typical 60 to 80% of hull speed good technique will be just as valuable as physical strength.
Stephen
“guarantee to put you between a mile
and a mile and a mile and a half faster”
Please note that I ended my post with “Just my take”
I used to race with a euro, and when I switched to the wing my times increased that much.
Cheers,
JackL
Bowler- thought you might be
interested in this link re: the Ikelos from Atlantic Kayak:
http://tinyurl.com/3exnnd
Below is an excerpt of the article:
“The prototype that Andy brought over two years ago has more than proven itself in performance. In the six months since returning from Iceland, I’ve used the Ikelos almost exclusively. And I love it. The biggest difference in performance is the way the blade feels in the water. Andy and Werner Furrer Jr. wanted to create a blade that was smoother to use in transition strokes - sculling draw, forward bow rudders, hanging draw etc. Because the impregnated foam gives the blade its strength, Andy and Werner were able to smooth the back of the blade and get rid of the ridge that normally provides strength to the blade. With the ridge eliminated, the smooth back allows the blade to slice through the water without cavitating and pulling air down the channel of the old style blades.
The other big difference in the Ikelos is the obvious floatation of the blade. Because of the foam, the blade not only weighs slightly less than a carbon fiber blade of equal size, it also floats higher in the water. This translates into a slightly different feel at the entry of the stroke: it takes a little extra effort to bury the blade into its power phase but the difference is so minimal that I quickly forgot about it. The biggest appeal for me in using the Ikelos is the way it exits the water. Because of its smooth back and the floatation, the blades slip out of the water with noticeable ease. The blade also carries less water at the exit due to the absence of the ridge and the decreased surface area on the blade. What this translates into is less stress on the smaller muscles at the back of the shoulder that do all the lifting as the blades begin to clear the water.
Every time we make a change in a motor skill we’re bound to feel some differences. The first time I paddled with the prototype Ikelos, I noticed a slight flutter at the start of the power stroke. After five minutes of using the new blade I had made some unconscious adjustment and the flutter was gone. Now, I don’t even think about flutter. I’m sure it was just a matter of getting used to the feel of the new paddle. I think it may be similar to sitting for the first time in a narrower boat than we are accustomed to. The boat feels jittery and unsettled, yet an hour later the jitters are gone and the boat begins to take on a more familiar feeling.
If I consider the Ikelos strictly in terms of forward paddling, I have found the blade to be every bit as good and maybe better than my old favorite, the Molokai. The Ikelos’ thicker blade makes a slightly noisier entry than the Molokai, but that is the only drawback I’ve found. Having used the Molokai for eight years. I doubted that the Ikelos would have the same pulling power of the larger Molokai. Again, after 6 months of paddling the new blade, I think there may be a very slight difference in power, but it is so minimal that my doubts have been put to rest.
The other side of the power question may be, “Is the blade too big?” Yes, the blade is still considered large by some standards, but if the blade size is balanced with overall length, you can customize your comfort and power requirements. Blade size and shaft length are equivalent to the sprocket size and number of teeth on a bicycle. I paddle with a 210cm Ikelos. For me it’s a great compromise in power-revolution per minute-and efficiency. I’ve got the larger blade for the power I need in surf, in sprinting and in maintaining a clean high angle efficient stroke. And I have the short overall length that minimizes fatigue and the wear and tear on my body that would otherwise be stressful. Being of slight build, I’m certain I could not paddle a blade this size in 220cm. With a long paddle and large blade surface, all that torque has to go somewhere - and unfortunately it’s going to go to the first linkages in the transmission of all that power from the blades to the boat: the shoulders and wrists. In anything but really rough water, my preference is to go even shorter to a 205cm. The cadence is a little faster and once the boat is up to speed, the paddling is almost effortless.”
So basically they added a dash of GP!
That’s the way the first half reads to me anyway.
Some more observations…
Have not gotten the 215 Ikelos yet, but wanted to list some more observations here:
-Something I may not have made clear…I just switched to the 210 Cyprus, previously having had the 205. Found the 205 felt more like my 210 Ikelos due to the shafts being identical length. Comparing the two identical paddles in two different lengths, I can say for sure that the shorter Cyprus did allow for more torso rotation and just felt sweet to paddle being so short; however, I can definitely paddle faster with the longer Cyprus. Probably a combination of the fact that the longer length is extending the forward / power portion of the stroke and the extra leverage of the longer paddle. The difference in speed between the two is notable according to my GPS.
-I can paddle just a hair faster with the 210 Cyprus (small blade) than I can with the 210 Ikelos (large blade). Remember that these two paddles are the same overall length, but the Cyprus has a longer shaft to comensate for the shorter blade so they are not really identical and feel quite different because of the shaft length difference. Not sure whether the speed difference is due to the higher cadence of the Cyprus, or the longer shaft length, but I can paddle it a bit faster…but I am talking about something like .2 or .3 mph faster…virtually the same.
-Something that I can say about the two different blades is that they definitely lend themselves to different paddling cadences. The big blade seems to do best with a slow, steady cadence, milking the power from each stroke and concentrating more on muscle strength. The smaller blade lends itself to a much faster cadence, less use of muscle strength and more use of aerobic capacity and muscle endurance. Also seems that it may put more strain on shoulders due to less torso rotation but I can’t say for sure…just know my shoulders were sore after paddling hard with it the other day.
-Lots of variables here so can’t make a definitive statement about speed of the Ikelos vs. Cyprus. I think that the 215 Ikelos will give the answer. It is a longer overall length than the 210 Cyprus but has THE SAME SHAFT LENGTH so in some ways it is more equivalent to the 210 Cyprus than the 210 length Ikelos would be.
-Even if the 215 Ikelos proves to be slower than the smaller bladed Cyprus I can say this…it still has a niche for sure. I really like the slow and steady cadence it requires. Furthermore, the big blade certainly accelerates faster and makes it easier to catch wind waves. Big blade is also super boyant and great for muscling the boat through quick turns and great for rolling and bracing. Good surf and rough water paddle.
Matt
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