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It’s not “too much boat”. It sounds like a fine day-paddling boat. That’s how I use my Avocet.
You won’t have a problem paddling slowly. The “tippy” feeling at rest will rapidly go away as you get used to it.
Just as an example – The Avocet is “tippy” enough that I can use just my lower body to rock it until the cockpit coaming is in the water. But I’m perfectly comfortable just floating along sitting still.
It’s actually one of my warmup exercises: hold the paddle loosely just in front of your shoulders, shaft parallel with the water. Use you hips and legs to rock the boat from side to side, gradually increasing the angle as you get comfortable. Let your upper body stay relaxed and keep the paddle level.
Just my observations
Bego,
I’m willing to bet the first few times you’re out in the boat you won’t feel too confident in the stability, but like both of them have said, with some seat time you will learn to trust the kayak.
I’m thinking the first couple of times you will come back pretty exhausted and sore, but as time goes on you won’t be “fighting” the kayak as much and will become really comfortable and relaxed in it.
I initially thought that about the Dagger Alchemy I tried, but I know with more seat time I will adjust. All it takes is time.
water comfort level
Yup. To be fair, I had a lot of time on other tippy wet things(sailboard, Sunfish, etc.)before I started kayaking. Feeling mildly unstable on the water is pretty much normal, and moving in three dimensions is what water does. That’s why it’s fun!
It just takes time on the water. A sense of humor about getting wet helps too…
Re: Just my observations
Thanks, that’s pretty much exactly what I’ve been thinking, that I’ll get used to it. I’d rather buy a boat that’ll challenge me and that I can grow into rather than a more stable one that I’ll outgrow quickly (if I’ve not outgrown already).
Funny that you mention the Dagger Alchemy by the way. A lot of people have suggest that boat to me, but I can’t find a place around me that sells it.
Re; more
Good stuff, nice to know I can just coast if I want to! That’s what I’m looking for - something I can be aggressive in, go for long paddles and push my ability, but also that I can take it easy in when I want to. That’s looking for the best of both worlds, I know, but it sounds like the Easky 15 LV has a good blend of what I’m looking for.
Thanks for the warm up tip too, I’ll definitely use that one!
I’m kind of a wimp
– Last Updated: Aug-22-12 1:12 PM EST –
I'm a bit of a wimp, honestly. I had inner ear damage from a bad bike wreck many years ago that affects my balance so I am apt to be a little freaked by instability. I have another hard-chined kayak that is definitely more squirrelly than the Easky. That boat can be tiring to paddle, but not the LV.
My sense of "tippiness" in the Easky disappeared within the first 15 minutes of using it. I took it on its maiden voyage on one of the rivers when we had a low water situation which caused the shallows along the bank to reflect the power boat wakes, creating some crazy wave patterns. I quickly found the boat could be trusted and have felt that way ever since.
Like Angstrom, I sometimes sit and rock side to side in it when sitting in calm water, just to loosen my hips. But I find I can drift in it just fine on lazy days and it stays centered without any effort. The chine is low, unlike the chines on my Greenland boat, so it is not a lot of travel from side to side, just a slight wiggle. When it is loaded down there is less wobble since it sits lower in the water.
If anything, I consider it a lighter touring boat, not "too much kayak" at all. It has barely medium baggage capacity -- fortunately I have ultralight backpacking gear so I can fit enough in the hatches for a camping trip but you definitely have to plan carefully for that. I mostly use it for day trips -- at 44 lbs it's really easy to haul.
Alchemy
That’s pretty much the same situation I’m in. I happen to demo the Dagger Alchemy about a month ago. I loved it so much I wanted to buy one on the spot, however all they had were demo boats for sale.
Now I can’t find anybody around me that sells them, hahaha.
I think it is a good value
A close friend paddles one, it is his only sea kayak and he uses it for all the things we do on the California Coast.
About the only thing people talk about changing is the backrest out for a backband.
It has a great hull shape, works well for ocean surfing as well as for long distance trips.
I am frankly surprised that more people don’t own one.
Thanks! And a couple more questions…
Hi all,
Just wanted to say thanks for all your comments and help! I was already leaning toward getting the Easky but needed a bit more info. You’re help has been perfect, and I’m convinced now! I’ve reserved it yesterday (it’s off the rental fleet for the summer, which is not my favourite option by saves me a lot of money), and I’ll be picking it up the labour day weekend. Woohoo!
I do have a couple more quick questions. What size spray skirt do I need? I do want to be able to do rolls. Will nylon work or should I spring for the more expensive Neoprene?
And Willowleaf, how do you surf waves in a kayak? Just turn perpendicular to them and paddle hard when they come?
Thanks again all! Any other comments, feedback, or tips are always welcome!
Surfing waves
– Last Updated: Aug-23-12 8:37 AM EST –
If you are talking about surfing breaking waves near shoer, that is a skill set in itself and deserves some time with others to learn.
If you are talking about simply handling non breaking stuff out in the open, once you are comfortable in the boat there is no need to pick a particular way to take them. If anything that is one place where people make their lives unduly difficult.
We have had instances in a group where someone decided that they had to be perpendicular to any waves and, because of that, went way, way out off the straight run to the take-out and got apart from the group because of the zig-zagging involved. They were a heck of a lot more unsafe by being that far away from the main pod and feeling freaked out about waves than if they had just relaxed and taken them at a lesser angle, and got to the launch faster.
Re the skirt, there is one caution. Do not go out with a neo deck skirt without having practiced getting it off in calm water. They generally have to be pulled off, you can't just push, and we've had a local paddler arrive with their brand new neo skirt that never got wet and had to be pulled out of their boat on the first capsize. Plastic boats are easier, but not enough to negate the difference between nylon and neo deck skirts.
Personally I find that skirts with a rand are much more difficult to get off than ones with bungies, to the point that if I was tired I could be pushing my luck. I generally opt for a skirt that is not as watertight as some but I know I can get off in any difficult condition. You should figure out your own tolerances here.
neoprene
If you plan to spend time inverted, go with neoprene.
In my experience, skirts with a rubber rand seal to the cockpit better than skirts that just have a bungee, but can be a bit harder to remove.
Venture seat backs have changed
Venture changed their seat design around 2010. Mine is that year and has a sort of convertible seat back that folds in half to make a very backband like arrangement (i have Snapdragon backbands in two other boats). It unfolds to make a higher support, which I have never used in that format.
The Easkys prior to 2010 had a larger bulkier seat back and completely different coaming (so the new seats can’t be retrofitted to the old boats.) I was able to see this last weekend when I stopped at the boathouse at Lake George Kayak with the intent of buying one of their rental fleet Easky 15’s for my boyfriend. Unfortunately the only ones they were selling off were the older versions with that higher backed more conventional seat. One of the things my BF likes about my Easky is that newer seat. So I didn’t end up buying the older boat.
So if you are looking at a 2010 or later Easky it should have the new fold-down seat back. The design of the coaming attachment is such that you could easily swap it out for a Snapdragon or other aftermarket backband, though I have found that the back is close enough to one that I have not bothered to do so.
i suspect you don’t see many Easkys around because dealers are rare for them. My local independent shop stocked them alongside Wilderness Systems boats for years but have found that beginners were not as easy to sell on the Easkys due to that “tippiness” the OP has mentioned. So they have regretfully reduced their stock of them. It’s a shame, because for the same price point as the madly popular Tsunamis the Easkys are lighter and better performing boats, at least in my opinion. A good friend has a Tsunami 140 that I have paddled a number of times and I find it sluggish in the water and a pain to load.
Easky skirts
Bego, I’ll check my sprayskirts when I get home to see which models fit. I have a bunch of them so I honestly can’t remember which I use on the Easky. I did recently buy a neoprene/nylon combo skirt for it that was a good deal on sale somewhere. As I recall, the coaming size is pretty standard and I have not had trouble finding skirts to fit. Skirts I already owned for some other boats fit it as well. This year the rivers have been so low our trips have been pretty much flat water – for those I’ve used a Harmony half skirt just to keep drips off my lap.
Seals lists the size for their skirts to be 1.7 for the Easky. However, I bought a used whitewater boat this summer that came with a Seals 1.7 skirt. I tried fitting it on the Easky and it was too small. Even with two of us tugging on it, one in the boat and one outside, we could barely get it over the lip and it popped right off as soon as I moved. You could see it was an inch too small in both directions.
So I would advise that you wait til you get the kayak and then try to find stock skirts that you can actually try with the boat.
one skirt that fits
This skirt (Immersion Research Excursion) in the size XL fits the Easky 15LV. I bought one in June.
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___73246
The deck is neoprene but the tube is breathable fabric, like Goretex, so it isn’t quite as hot on a warm day. It has a snug rand but is simple to pull off due to having both a tug strap and a piece of webbing across the deck. Price is pretty decent at $70. The tube is not as snug as a full neo would be, but with a paddling jacket pulled down over it, the arrangement would probably do OK for rolling.
I
paddle the 15 (not LV) and love this kayak. The build quality is outstanding, especially compared to the Tempest (16) I had. Venture is owned by P&H and the poly formula they use is very durable…no flex (I’m 6-2/215) and the material is very scratch/scuff resistant compared to the WS Tempest or my Necky Vector SOT. Fit and finish on this kayak is exceptional and very happy with it’s performance. Thought you might enjoy this video of one being made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XW_0Ngizog
Skirt for rolling
Cautions I mentioned above aside, a neo deck skirt is much more apt for rolling and wet work than nylon. They stretch with you rather than pulling off the coaming when you roll, and they are usually drier.
You just have to practice pulling them off, unlike the nylon where you should but a good panicked push will usually take them off anyway.
Re; I
Thanks jimx200, cool video! I didn’t realize they were hand made like that!
Re: skirts
Willowleaf, thanks for the sizing info! The half neo half gortex-like material sounds like it might be okay.
Celia, thanks for the pointers. At my local canoe and kayak club, I have tested out several kayaks and practiced wet exits with neo skirts, so I feel pretty comfortable with them. That being said, I don’t know if they were bungee cords or rubber rands. I’ll check that. I think I’m probably looking for something in between - super dry would be nice, but probably expensive and unnecessary for my needs. But I do want it to stay on the coaming if I do roll. Perhaps something like the part neo, part gortex-like material that Willowleaf mentioned?
To 'splain
There are three basic makeups for skirts -
All neo skirts - neo deck and neo tunnel
Neo deck with fabric tunnel
Fabric deck and fabric tunnel
All I was talking about was having a neo deck, whatever the tunnel, and that will stay on when you roll. Tunnel is personal preference. I have neo tunnels for my WW skirts and fabric tunnels for the sea kayaks because I don’t have the patience to squeeze a neo tunnel over a dry suit. But at times I am in the minority - the guys in the pod all prefer neo tunnels.
Rand versus bungie is how the edge that goes under the coaming is made. Bungies tend to be less sticky to get off.
Dryness is a lot of things once you start rolling. Water can come in thru the tunnel, very small opportunities at the edge of the coaming… it starts getting relative to water sloshing around in your boat.
9 months later
– Last Updated: Jun-11-13 9:57 AM EST –
So after everyone's help in trying to figure out if I should by the Venture Easky 15LV, I did buy it and I thought I'd post a review.
To start with, I bought it at the end of last summer and used it about half a dozen times, and now that winter's over I've been out a few more times so far this spring. So I realize that I don't have a TON of experience yet, but I'll add that most of my paddles are about 2-3 hours in choppy conditions. For what it's worth, here's my review.
This is a fantastic kayak! It tracks so nicely, even without the skeg. In really choppy conditions, I drop the skeg and it's as straight as an arrow.
It's a very quick kayak. It glides through the water effortlessly, and picks up speed nicely. Granted, I haven't tried it directly against other boats, but I have tried out about a dozen other boats on my own (12-17 footers), and this is a quick one.
As it's quite a narrow boat, for the first few uses (especially if you are more on the beginner side) it feels really tippy. But it's the great kind of tippy, where you can learn to edge. I'm still learning just how far over I can go (secondary stability), but the more I trust myself, the more I realize how stable this kayak is on it's side. That being said, you can just sit and relax without paddling, which is nice too.
Perhaps the thing that's impressed me most is how it handles in swells and rough water. I've been in 3-5 foot swells, and the Easky glides over them like they're nothing - both facing head on into the wave, and having the wave hit you from the side.
The one thing I'd add is to make sure you have a skirt, especially in choppy conditions. The water definitely comes over the bow in swells. But again, it handles them beautifully. That seems like a contradiction, but somehow it's not.
My skeg has gotten stuck the past few paddles, but it's a rope skeg and should be easily repaired - in fact I think I may have already fixed it just by fiddling with it. I'll find out on my next paddle.
Paddleholder is beautiful!!! I can't believe all kayaks don't have a paddleholder.
The little day hatch on top is nice, I just need to buy a smaller water bottle.
The seat is comfortable. I've sat in other kayaks that are far less comfortable. I can sit in this one for 2-3 hours. My legs are stiff by the end, but hey, I've just been sitting for a few hours! I always have the seat-back in the down position, as I paddle with a skirt and it won't fit if the seat is up.
Overall, I'm thrilled with this purchase. I can't wait to get out a lot more this summer and improve my skill, see just how far I can edge, and learn to roll. I'd recommend it to anyone with my dimensions (5'7", 155lbs) who's an intermediate paddler looking to get better.