My favorite is a Pungo 140. I’m big 6’5", 220 and it is very comfortable, handles bumpy water very well and is relatively fast. Relatively means it falls between my
Tarpon 140 and my Stellar S14S .
I paddle it the most often.
To do rolls, you would need a cockpit that can have a somewhat secure skirt attached to it. If you look at the Seals Sprayskirt sizing page (Seals Sprayskirts - Sizing), the number given relates to the size of the cockpit (larger number larger cockpit). You’d want 2.2 at largest, likely smaller would be better.
Note - you dont have to use Seals skirts - just listing because it is easy to size. Seals is good, but some think other brands are better.
You should see speed and tracking improvements with going even a couple feet longer and a few inches narrower. But a jump to say 14’ should be a huge improvement jump. Given what you say you want to do and your storage limit, I’d consider going straight to a 14’ boat.
At your size, if a boat comes in 2 volume sizes,youd probably want small. If 3 sizes, regular volume or maybe small volume.
Definitely consider used. You’ll pay maybe half of new and if you find you don’t like that model, you can resell for what you paid. Likely none on market now, but they will be in spring/summer.
The open Great Lakes should be treated as ocean regarding skills and gear needed.
Having two kayaks, one in the 12’ range and one in the 14’ range, has worked out great for me and I wouldn’t give up my boats. Plus, I’m a big fan or rotomolded polyethylene for its toughness.
I read through your intended usages again, and in 2023 I was in the same position (except that I’ve never had ambition to go onto the great lakes or to roll). I came over from distance cycling and small lakes, and I was putting together plans to go down the Huron River water trail, with the dream of canoe camping along the way.
I bought the used Carolina and then found I was too long (I’m 6’-2"), so I kept my eye on Craigslist and bought my Charleston, which has worked out great. Last summer I went down the Huron twice and I was able to fit all my camping gear below decks. I could not have fit my gear into my 11.5, and I would not want to plow water in for 104 miles. Canoe camping down the Huron is wonderful, and I’m looking forward to doing the Huron trip many more times.
On the other hand, I think 14’ or 15’ is the useful limit to go down the Huron. Longer than that and dodging trees must be very difficult. 12’ is the useful limit for small rivers and small lakes, such as the Rouge. Two kayaks, one in the 10-12’ range and one in the 14’ range, is a great way to go. It’s amazing how much difference that 2’ or 3’ makes.
Very useful comment, thank you. I am too dreaming of kayak camping down the Huron! Glad to know doing so in a 14’ is possible. I’ll likely buy a 14’ now and keep my 8’ for creeks and narrow rivers and then continue saving so I can replace the 8’ with a quality 12’ yak.
I don’t plan on going out into the open Great Lakes, but there are a number of small islands off the coasts that I’d be interested in checking out on calm weather days, like government islands in the southeastern UP or Turtle Island in Lake Erie. Also interested in kayaking around Belle Isle or even from Belle to Grosse Isle in the Detroit River. The reason I mentioned rolling is because I thought it was an essential safety thing. I still have a lot to learn haha, but water is a force to be reckoned with so I want to be safe in my adventures.
The “advanced and twitchy” feeling for most kayaks disappears after a few hours in the kayak.
I’m close to your size (5’ 5" with long legs for my height and 150-155 pounds). I mostly paddle rivers and lakes locally (SW Pennsylvania) but also the coastal Atlantic and the Great Lakes, including Lake Michigan (having lived in Grand Rapids for 8 years when I first started kayaking and still visit family along the west coast of MI and attend kayak skills camps there.) So I’ll throw in my 2 cents. I have owned over 20 kayaks in the past 23 years and currently have 10 of them ranging from 12’ to 19’ with every length in between. Weights range from 24 pounds to 55 pounds, but the 18’ one is among the lightest, a Greenland style hand built skin on frame kayak that is only 31 pounds.
I really think you would be happiest, based on what you have stated is important to you in performance, with a low volume lighter weight 14 or, better yet, 15’ touring kayak with a beam of 22" to 24". I have 4 kayaks in that approximate range which are the ones that I use most and I find they give the best balance of speed, comfort, portability tracking in narrow to wide flatwater rivers, some open whitewater streams with class 1 and 2 rapids, large windy lakes and coastal conditions with waves, wind and strong currents.
First off, what’s your budget? You can get wonderfully light and nimble kayaks from Stellar that are 25% lighter than plastic rotomold boats of similar design. And if your budget won’t handle several thousand dollars for a boat, are you willing to have the patience to search the used market and possibly travel to pick up the right boat? This is actually a good time to buy a used boat. I track that market regularly as I am always picking up good boat deals that I either restore and resell or find for friends and family who are looking for boats. There are many more boats in the market now than have been for several years, in part because many people who started paddling during the early years of covid have either lost interest or they are ready to upgrade to fancier boats.
If you intend to paddle the coastal Great Lakes you really need to consider a boat at least 14 feet (again, 15’ is a hair better) and that has a skeg or rudder so you can counteract strong lateral currents and winds. A rudder can be flipped up or even removed if you are paddling rivers or calm lakes and a skeg retracts into the hull to be out of the way when you don’t need it for tracking.
The Pungo is not a good choice for a large cold lake like Michigan – cockpit is way too big. And the Eddyline Rio is too small for safety in coastal conditions – a shorter boat can be really tough to get back to shore if you go to far out. You already have a short boat for local smaller waters – the RIO might make those a little faster by won’t really expand your destination range.
You want a standard sized cockpit, like around 34" by 19", plus or minus 1 or 2 inches each way. That’s large enough to allow you to plop your butt in the seat and pull each leg in one at a time, also to allow you to brace your knees under the foredeck of the cockpit for control of the boat and rolling, but also small enough to support a decent sprayskirt, which is an absolute necessity for rolling and for open water touring and large lakes and oceans, even in large rivers. Lake Michigan is relatively cold so you need to be able to seal yourself in the cockpit for that reason too.
For your weight and body metrics, a low volume kayak will fit you better and be more fun to paddle. These have a lower height profile and are narrower than other kayaks in those length classes and this also means that they are lighter than shorter, wider and deeper boats since they use less material. For instance, the plastic Perception Carolina 14 you are considering is 24.5" wide and weighs 53 pounds. My Venture Easky 15LV is 15’ long, 22" wide and only weighs 45 pounds. I’m 74 and can still lift it onto my roofrack by myself. It’s also much faster and tracks better than a Carolina (i have rented Carolinas during travels). Even my fiberglass Perception Avatar at 16’ long with 22" beam, another low volume boat, only weighs 49 pounds. I only paid $300 for that one used – it was missing it’s hatch covers which I was able to replace for less than $70.
If you could find a used Venture Easky 15LV I think you’d really enjoy it. I’ve used it as a “loaner boat” for many of my friends and family when I take them out kayaking and everybody has loved the stability, tracking and speed they can get in it, both newcomers to kayaking and people with intermediate level experience. They do pop up occasionally for sale (Venture stopped making the model about 6 years ago) – there were 2 in my state in the past year for under $700. One is up for auction now in NC: https://www.allsurplus.com/asset/516/3712
There was a discussion 8 years ago on here started by a guy your size who was considering buying an Easky 15LV – you can read it here to see what he thought of it. His review of it is the last entry if you scroll through:
Not that light, but the Riot Edge 14.5 would be a good choice for you. One of my most frequent paddling buddies has one and it’s a very competent and versatile kayak.
Don’t feel limited by distance in buying a used boat. It can often be possible to negotiate a delivery. I’ve delivered boats myself (kayaks and canoes) to other P.commers in nearby states over the years, both ones I sold or ones they bought from others. I often travel to Michigan (was there traveling around the state for 10 days last August) since I have family and friends there and have delivered boats there several times, also drove once from Pittsburgh to Muskegon to take the ferry across to Wisconsin to buy a rare boat I wanted. I travel in a converted box truck that I can carry several boats inside.
Welcome to the paddling community. I see that you are in S.E Michagan. That has you local to me (I’m between Lansing & Jackson). There is a lot of good information so far in the above posts. I’d like to highlight the the Great Lakes (and especially Superior) are INLAND SEAS and can be as (or more) dangerous than the ocean. They are also cold once you get off-shore. Especially on Superior there are many places where safe landings are far & few between.
You mention Boundry Waters & Algonquin for some trips. Much of those waters are ‘Canoe Country’ due to portages. Canoes are easy to load & unload at rough landings. Your gear doesn’t need to be repacked and a canoe is fairly easy to get up on your shoulders for a walk in the woods. With a kanya, you gear is packed in many small bags that need to be consolidated for the carry.
I’m a member of a local paddling club, the Lansing Oar And Paddle Club (LOAPC). Since you are close by I’d like to suggest that you come join us for some meetings and trips. many or our ‘Rec’ trips are suitable for your current kayak. We organize trips through MEETUP (free to join the Meetup). Club membership is $20 per year. This link is a good start:
Join | Lansing Oar and Paddle Club We meet in East Lansing on the third Tuesday during the off season (November - May). We will have a plan for 2025 paddles available at the 2025 Quiet Adventures Symosium March 1 (https://www.quietadventures.org/)
Also in Michigan I have two recommendations for training & guided trips:
The Power of Water has pool sessions in Howell through the winter & they are top ACA instructors: https://www.thepowerofwater.net/play/paddling-school/pool-sessions/
Michael Gray at Uncommon Adventures is also a top instructor, guide & cook. https://www.mi-paddleadventure.com/ If you are thinking of an Isle Royale trip I HIGHLY recommend going on one of his trips.
Hopefully I’ll see you on the water. You can send a private message to me if you would like more information.
Rich
Thank you so much for the super detailed and thoughtful reply. This is full of useful information. I have a few marketplace boats saved that are in IL, PA and OH respectively. I looked up that Venture Easky and there happens to be one in Waterford PA for under $700. maybe they would be willing to meet me halfway in Cleveland… then I could take it for a test paddle in the Cuyahoga haha. There is also an older Riot with a skeg in Indianapolis. Locally, there is a Tsunami 125 near me for $500 that comes with a carbon fiber paddle… shorter boat but maybe good for me to learn and grow in? There is also a Merlin LT for $700, it’s just under 14’ and a lower volume boat. Though I’m a little afraid of thermoformed kayaks since I paddle a lot of rocky/ obstacle ridden waters.
Wow, thank you. I will be sure to keep an eye on LOAPC events. And thank you for the link to Power of Water, I am a stones throw from Howell.
Waterford is up near Erie if I recall correctly, about 2 hours north of me and probably 3 hours from you. If the Easky is not an LV model it will be a little bigger than my LV (I think it is 2 pounds heavier) but probably still fit you.
I would not recommend a Tsunami 125 for you. Too short for the big lakes and kind of wide and sluggish. Built as more of a day recreation boat for big husky guys – at 26" wide and as deep as the hull is you would have poor control.
I’m 6’ tall and when I weighed 250 lbs, I regularly paddled the 125 Tsunami across 10.5 miles of open water on the Upper Chesapeake (without spray skirt). I eventually upgraded to the 145 and then the 175 Tsunami to better handle harsher conditions and to improve the speed.so I could go further. I felt total confidence in the boat and still do under favorable conditions.
Just making a point about the the 125 Tsunami (12’ 9" long by 26" wide). Its a slower boat, but not necessarily slow for the capacity. Despite my weight overloading the safe load equation, its very seaworthy.
It’s simply my opinion, so I have no desire to entertain hate mail that suggests that I’m a rube. I’m not suggesting that the Tsunami is suitable for the Great Lakes. Test it first under different conditions, then offer critique and opinions.
My recommendations were based on the OP being 5’ 7" and an athletically wiry 168 pounds. He’s far closer to my proportions than to yours. Like I do, he’d swim in a Tsu 125.
I drive right past Howell on I-96 a couple of times a year on my drives between Pittsburgh and GR-Muskegon area (where I have a bunch of friends and family). Camped one night at a Harvest Host site near the intersection of 23 and 59 on a “Tour de Mitten” with the camper last August.
If you haven’t settled on a kayak upgrade by my next trip (usually in the Spring unless a family event there comes up sooner – wedding or funeral) I could bring the Easky LV along and meet you to try it out. I always bring at least one of the boats with me when I head there.
If you’re looking at a Rio, may I assume you have an Eddyline dealer around? If so, Take a look at the Equinox (14’). The Sitka (13’9") is a bit more performance-oriented but it may work well for someone your size.
Neither are boats for angry waters, but your original post suggests that rolling, surfing and rock gardening aren’t in your plan. If at some point you venture further out in the Great Lakes, you’ll want something designed for that sort of use. Fortunately, there are worse things than having to buy another boat .
As always: (1) check the used markets. You can often get boats in excellent shape for 50% off MSRP and then sell them when you’re ready to upgrade with little or no loss, and (2), try before you buy if at all possible. If your waters are frozen, just sitting in the boats (on foam blocks) for a bit is better than nothing.
Find a 12’ Pungo or Elle Sound. Great yaks that will do all you want till you want to upgrade again. If you can find a CD Breeze BUY it. 13’-6" great kayak that will take you anywhere you want to go.
The Tsunami 125 is a very good yak. I have 2 friends that have then & really like them. I myself have never paddled them however I have paddled the 3 I mentioned in the other post.
I don’t disagree, but you’re assuming the person asking for advice wants a tight fitting boat. How that boat fits is less important than cargo volume. The next post mentions camping, which requires volume. A 168 lb paddler could pack an 80 pound load and still have acceptable freeboard, while I was already overloading the boat. The 125 Tsunami is 12’9" by 26" wide with a 300 lb maximum capacity.
On the other hand, the Eddyline Rio is 11’9" by 24" wide, with a maximum capacity of 270 lbs. The major advantage of the Eddyline is the 37 lb carry weight compared to the 51 lb Tsunami, a 14 lb difference. On a positive note, the Eddyline weight savings helps with load capacity. The question is whether the Eddyline will handle conditions like the Tsunami. For that you better look at the deck height of 12 inches for the Eddyline and compare it to 15 inch deck of the Tsunami. Three inches is significant.
So the user has to ask a question: do I want to play rolly-polly in the surf, do I want a roomy cockpit or tight for better control, do I want to carry cargo, do I want light weight, or would I prefer a comfortable roomy cockpit with great primary stability to stretch and not have to worry about ending up looking at upside down fish.
I’ve never paddled an Eddyline, but I believe it would sink with me under the conditions I typically paddle. Faster doesn’t just mean hull speed. When encountering waves head on, the deck height and safe capacity go together, as does the hull form. Symmetric hulls like the Tsunami are more barge like and will rise on a wave peak, then plunge into the trough. That plunging action increases with speed, so the answer to handling such conditions is to slow down and bob over waves rather than rise and plunge which ultimately washes the cockpit with a sheet of water. It isn’t that the 125 Tsunami can’t handle 12 to 16 inch or even 18 inch waves. It just means you have to slow down. So if the 125 Tsunami can average 4.1 mph over a 21.5 mile trip across open water, you just have to understand the conditions of waves, wind, tide and current. With all thing going in your favor, a 10 mph wind at your back, a falling tide with a river outflow, and 9 inch waves, you can cook along at 5.4 mph. Then you have to pay the piper on the 10.75 mile leg home. If the wind is from the same direction and the speed increases to 15 mph (happens in the afternoon), then the tide reverses direction and is contrary to the wind, you will probably fight 18 inch waves which aren’t so bad from the rear, but your speed will cut in half to avoid plunging into the troughs. Then if you face even a standing .6 mph outflow from the river, that slows progress from 2.7 mph to 2.1 mph. So the average trip in a 125 Tsunami might take 5 hrs 15 min on a calm day with a fortuitous slack or favorable reversing tides, or 10 hrs 30 mins under less favorable conditions. In a 145 Tsunami under similar conditions, the trip take about 4 hrs 45 minutes to 5 hrs, and in a 175 Tsunami, it could be done in 4 hrs 15 to 30 min, because those conditions would impact the 175 even less than the 145.
As a side note, I know I get hate mail for not using a spray skirt. The reason I don’t use one is that I select my kayak for the conditions, and monitor by radio the forecasted conditions and expected changes. I don’t hesitate to change course when conditions are marginal.
The 125 Tsunami might be roomy, but I promise it is very seaworthy, as well as reasonably fast under the right conditions. For the OP, i hope this helps to understand the difference between a snug fit and a cavernous cockpit when paddling open water. Speed isn’t always about hull speed formulas. You need to factor in deck height, hull form, carrying capacity, and stability. A boat with excellent primary stability will bob like a cork as long as you are in waves without a curl (for lack of a better term). Even if I were only 167 lbs, I don’t think I’d take the Eddyline out under the same conditions that I easily face in the 125 Tsunami.
Incidentally, my 15 year old grandaughter who is around 100 lbs has used my 125 Tsunami in open Bay without complaint. She now has a 140 Tsunami and handles it well. My older sister used a 140 Pungo (14’ by 28" wide for years before she bought her own 140 Tsunami, with rudder, which has NEVER been deployed. She faced the same conditions with me. It isn’t that most boats are not suited; it mostly depends on whether some are mores suited for the conditions and your expectation. Test the boat and anticipate your needs. Buy more than one if you have the storage space, and select the one for the task at hand. You don’t haul wood in a sedan, or use the sedan to travel rugged mountain trails. Dont expect one boat to excel in everything, and don’t buy a boat because someone said they like it.
By the way, I’m not saying the 125 Tsunami is right for the OP. Just that I believe there are more parameters in selecting a boat than how your ass fits a seat. I paddled a 140 Duralite Pungo for a while. The speed, roominess, light weight and stability was very appealing. I added a forward bulkhead and deck ropes. However, it pounded in waves and the excessive width for my height was undesirable. Most of all, it couldn’t handle harsh conditions, which are frequent. In the closed deck Tsunamis, I always have the option of diverting to a different course for the day, if an open crossing looks demanding. I’m never more than an hour from landfall, even if it isn’t my launch point. That way, changing weather doesn’t present a challenge, unless I call on them to pick me up in the other side of the bay, but that has never happened.
I’m hoping I’ve found a new yak by spring, but I am also always happy to meet new paddling and camping friends, and there always seems to be so much new knowledge to gain from meeting people. I did message the person in Waterford, unfortunately they are unwilling to meet part way, but I will continue searching
Unfortunately no Eddyline dealers anywhere near me so I am looking exclusively used. No sitkas near me, but I did find 2 Merlin’s, which if I understand correctly is the older, discontinued brother of the Sitka. I found both the LT and XT models, but my guess is the LT would work best for my 5’7 168 size.
Not looking to do anything crazy, just cruising local lakes and creeks, and occasionally kayak camping.
I think some reacted to your mention of “great lakes” but you said protected waters. If you fit in the Eddyline Rio it could work if you can get all your gear in it for overnight camping. Upgrading to even the Eddyline Skylark might be better, but you would still need the room for camping gear. I sorta doubt either of those will work for that unless you are an ultralight backpacker : ).