To those who responded to "question"

Thanks! Very helpfull information which I appreciate.

I deleted the thread as I got what I needed and I realized that it could cause “supposition” about folk I know who are employed already with other companies. As you can guess there’s much that may change in this economic climate and as such paddling / designing buddies are always exploring “what if’s”? Who knows what will happen in the next five years in paddling?

There’s a lot of talent out there sort of itching to either get back in the game after great previous success, or jump in fresh.

Again thanks for the responses and safe paddling!

very good
Don’t tip your hand '-)

Coulda let me finish reading…
… but pictures are always better…

that impressive
you didn’t mind some joking around… thanks for sharing some idea’s… I’ve only been on Pnet for a short time…

useful info is a good thing :wink:

hi salty , I started to respond to the

– Last Updated: May-22-09 12:28 AM EST –

..... other post but just deleted before posting .

About the only useful thing I said was that it would be a good idea to invest some dollars in a Marketing Analysis , there are firms that can do this for you in case you hadn't considered it yet .

For any serious bussiness venture , I personally think this is a mandatory first step and investment .

Since you mentioned "high end" / "high quality" / top $$ , product as your goal , and for the love of it all , I believe such a marketing analysis could put you in good position to move foward to the next steps of structure and envolement aimed at the crowd you will need to attract .

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this , most people want the best , few are willing to pay for it , so the majority compromise ... but some can afford the best and "always" pay for it ... that's your crowd for top dollar kayaks .

You "must have" some form of advantage in your product that is "unmistakable" to potential purchasers ... getting that advantage out into public knowledge may best be done by nearly giving your product away at first and then as reputation expands , increase price slowly and watch the charts .

You might like to read some about the power of marketing research analysis for prospective ventures like the one you were talking about . Here's a couple links on the topic :

The first step is always the hardest ...


– Last Updated: May-22-09 8:31 AM EST –

I'd guess there's about one sea kayaker for every 20 or 30 road bicyclists around here. Here's what's worse... I've been paddling a sea kayak for about 8 years and I've never seen a surfski. Not in a shop. Not on the water.

Is the market so rarified that they couldn't put one in some shops and take it to demos for folks to see, touch, paddle?

Sometimes it's tough being a weirdo. Or is it more of a case of having champaign taste and a beer budget?

Paddlesports Market Analysis
I have recently been doing market research for the North American Market and here are some of the details.

122 Kayak Companies (mfg or Distributors)

41 Canoe Companies

20 Inflatable Companies

1492 kayak models

718 models

372 Inflatable models

Total annual sales;

Kayaks 346,600 units

Canoes 99,600 Units

Inflatables 29,000 units

Interesting stuff

Can you break that down?
Can you break those figures down to useful information?

I assume your number for kayaks models includes everything from Wal-Mart pumpkin seeds to k-1s including whitewater and surf kayaks, as well as touring boats.

Want to paddle a surf ski? Come to Raystown, I’ll be bringing it. I’ll share some champagne with you.


I Really Do
How silly would it look to paddle a surfski with a GP? Oh hell. Get enough champaign in us and EVERYTHING’S funny.

Very silly…
Sorry Dave…


$300-400 million dollar kayak market ?
That’s a lot of plastic and a very fragmented industry.

very fragmented
No kidding. Look at the average sales per model (total annual units sold divided by number of models available).

Kayaks 232

Canoes 139

Inflat 78

Those are very small production runs. Hard to make money off that.

Then if you factor in the fact that the top 100 models probably account for 40-60% of total units sold, the other 2500 models will have total sales of approximately HALF of the above numbers.

Champaign Involved?
Looks like a GP and a new kind of SOT.

breakin it down
Kayaks include “pumpkin seeds” to surf skis, WW boats, folder, kits etc… The paddlesports industry seems to want to keep its business statistics close at hand. I am always amazed that we are such a small part of the economy with such a diverse population of participants.

A friend of mine once told me that he was startled to find out that paddling wasn’t even in the top 25 participant sports in the US according to the annual SGMA report. Number 1= bowling. So I asked him to consider how small a town had to be to not have a bowling alley, and how large a city had to be to have a paddle shop. Another interesting tidbit would be that paint ball is bigger than paddlesport. go figure

No champagne…
Did you notice Dave was dragging a leg…

Yes falcon
and, as you know, 60% of kayak sales are “pumpkin seeds”. Not good, not bad, just what “is”. Costs more to develop a great touring kayak than another cad designed, CNC cut pumpkin seed that will outsell it 20 to 1!!


Let me at whatever you need tested bro. Ya got my #.

Thought maybe y’all altered your consciousness and confused a QCC with an SOT!

You wouldn’t want one Rex
the only thing they are good for is racing and working out.

Then unless you are a pro, you’ll fall off unless you keep it moving, or if a few ripples are in the area.

Find a straight log, about twenty feet long and 18 inches in diameter. then straddle it in the water.

Pull your feet up and place them out in front of you on the top and start paddling at the same time - You are now on a surf ski