How do you like your Adventure XL?
NC-Cal, you note that you have an Adventure XL. I was considering an 160 XL as my next boat. We have a Loon 160T for paddling the two boys around with us. All 4 of us in one boat. And thats cool. The kids are little still. But as someone notes below 250 pound 6’4" ex linebackers can’t get in the skinny boats. While not a linebacker, I need a boat that’s stable and roomy. The XL’s look like nice boats that would fit my needs, including working on my skills. One last thought, would you think that the 138 XL be good for both myself and my wife, who is actually 1/2 my tonnage?
Thanks, Don
A continuum…
There really isn’t a -discrete- difference between a sea kayak and a recreational boat.
Anyway, the term “touring” is a bit ambiguous: sometimes, it’s a synonym for “sea kayak” and sometimes, it means a “beginner” sea kayak.
The width is a key difference: a sea kayak is narrower than a recreational boat. This is significant in the way the boat feels and behaves.
The narrow width of a sea kayak means you can rock the boat side to side with little effort. Thus, it has low “primary stability”. A recreational boat has a much higher resistance to this “rocking”.
With most sea kayaks, you’ll find that the resistance to rocking increases as you increase the degree of rocking. This is the “secondary” stability. Of course, you can go beyond this and capsize.
The low primary stabiity is a feature because it allows you to keep the boat upright in waves “dynamically”. It also allows you to “edge” the boat to make it turn easier.
A wide recreational boat is kept upright “statically” by just sitting there. These boats are designed to sit and stay flat on the water surface. That feature (and it is intentional) means that they require more work to keep upright in waves.
A wide boat also tends to contrain your paddle stroke to a shallow (or flat) angle. A narrow boat allows a more vertical paddle angle (without requiring you to extend your arms). A more vertical angle stroke has less of a turning effect than a shallow angle stroke (like a sweep stroke).
Also, since sea kayaks are generally used for longer trips in open water, they are designed to travel in a straight line (“track”). That is, they are designed to be more resistant to turning than recreational boats. This resistance to turning is lowered by “edging” the boat.
How much less vertical would a
stroke be in a 25" beam vs. a 21-24" beam. My stroke in my 25" yak is very vertical. I can also edge better than in 17’+ kayaks that I have demoed. It depends on the hull shape and chine.
However, I agree with you about that continuum stuff.
Comments from racers about strokes?
Would any racers like to comment about how width affects the paddling stroke?
Edging 17+ boats…
– Last Updated: Dec-13-05 11:05 AM EST –
A longer boat won't turn as well as a shorter boat (-generally-). (So it really isn't a surprize that the Calabria (the boat you appear to be talking about) would turn easier than a 17+ foot boat). Keep in mind that edging is only part of what I talked about. There's also the stability thing.
The 17+ foot boats will likely track straighter than the Calabria. There's a well-known design trade-off between tracking and turning. Being able to edge a boat is a bit like having your cake and eating it too.
The Calabria at 14.5 feet and 25 inches, and concidering its hull shape (as far as I can tell), is a bit of a crossover boat. Not quite a recreational boat and not quite a "true" sea kayak. (Note that I'm not saying any particular boat is "bad".)
The main point is that a sea kayak is designed to be rocked/edged and a recreational boat really isn't.
"Stability"
is not just a function of width relative to paddler size/weight but also to the shape/design of the hull bottom.
With the factors paddler size/weight, beam width and depth being equal, these hull design factors will affect the feel of primary and secondary stability:
Flat bottom will have the most primary stability, i.e. feel the most stable on a relatively flat water surface. Disadvantage is that when conditions are rough, the hull bottom will follow along the less horizontal face of a wave/chop, thus very unstable and harder to keep upright in conditions. Almost without variation, rec boats will have a wide flatter bottom that gives the paddler a sense of stability on calmer water surfaces.
V configuration: the angle from the center keel line to the chine, comprised the deadrise and the amount of “V”. A “V” cross section gives less primary stability because the hull will want to rest on one side of the keel or the other. However, once on side of the other, it resist wanting to go over. This is the secondary stability. Some amount of V will allow a paddler to stay more vertical in less than horizontal surfaces, i.e. waves and chops. The most sea kayaks will have some level of “v” shape in the hull cross section so the paddler (with bracing and rolling skills) can handle rougher conditions with more ease.
Rounded cross section - this is the hull shape that feels the least stable both in primary and secondary stability. However, it’s very fast because of the lower wetted surface area. Racing boats tend towards a more rounded hull. The stability comes from moving and the keeping a paddle blade in the water. When sitting still, the paddler likely has to keep a blade somewhat sculling to stay upright.
sing
A sea kayak is a rocking chair.
A sea kayak is a rocking chair except that it rocks side-to-side rather than front-to-back.
If you’ve used a rocking chair, you’ve noticed that it’s easy to rock back and forth. You can imagine that flatter rails rock more slowly and feel more stable. If you make the rails flat, it’s completely stable: it becomes a “normal” chair and no rocking is possible.
You’ve also noticed that a rocking chair tends to “catch” at the ends of the rocking. This is the “secondary” stability of the rocking chair.
The range of movement where the chair rocks is the “primary” stability of the chair. This stability is low but, it’s lower in some chairs than others.
A “true” recreational boat is like a normal chair: it isn’t really designed to rock. It will rock -some- because, unlike the floor a chair sits on, water moves. In a “true” recreational boat, there’s really only one type of stability: the primary and secondary merge together.
Note that you can tip a chair (rocking or normal) over if you lean to far one way or another. In this case, you are moving beyond the secondary stability (just like what happens when you flip a kayak over).
T
Sing’s comments are correct…
– Last Updated: Dec-13-05 11:31 AM EST –
Wider boats tend to have flatter bottoms (and are more statically stable). A really wide boat is never really deep.
Also, in addition to bracing with the paddle, a "tippy" boat is kept upright by keeping (by using "loose" hips) your center of mass above the boat.
Boats with true circular hull shapes are quite specialized and used in racing. These kind of boats move beyond "true" sea kayaks (more of that continuum thing).
Only thing not mentioned yet
are thigh braces. Rec boats do not require the kind of body control that a sea kayak does (because of the reasons elaborated on above) and hence have no or very minimal braces.
Thanks njkayaker
Your explanations are very good and clear.
The residents of Athol Idaho
are so sick and tired of people making fun of their towns name they started a petition to change the name. If successful, the town name will be changed to anuth.