@Overstreet said:
MSDs can be of no help. For example the MSD for a manhole cover lists ingestion as a hazard, but not dropping it on your foot.
And if you had a complete file it would fill several notebooks. Most MSDs are on line, fortunately. They are best for components and chemicals, not assemblies. A kayak MSDs would talk about cutting, burning(welding) and grinding(dust) hazards.
MSD’s are an example of information. You asked if I read labels before using products. Labels on kayaks would not hurt. Warning on coffee cups about temperatures at McDonalds
@PaddleDog52 said:
Warning on coffee cups about temperatures at McDonalds
This thread is getting more and more off topic, but do your research on this incident and you’ll find that it isn’t as silly or frivolous as it seems on the surface.
I disagree that kayak (or canoe) makers need to put warnings about cold water on their boats. There are numerous boating sources that have this information, and at some point people whom want to go out on the water need to be adults. You can’t force people to do that. Yes, there will be tragedies due to not understanding. You can’t get in front of every one.
The one place I can see it is maybe cautions on the paperwork with PFD’s indicating that they will not protect someone from cold water. To me there is a link there. But a general caution that paddling be dangerous should be enough to send attentive users to investigate.
You would have to live way in the woods and have no contact with the media to not have an opportunity to learn about cold water dangers.
All spring every weather blurb here in Maine included cold water warnings. NOAA issues cold water warnings when warranted and the TV stations do relay this… Same as they do for rip currents. I would think that Great Lakes TV stations do just the same.
Cold water drownings are not limited to paddlers… Fishermen are quite prone to contributing to statistics too. Perhaps a warning on every fishing pole?
People have ample opportunity to be informed. They sometimes choose to think the warnings do not apply to them
@PaddleDog52 said:
It’s Not frivolous never implied that. If they can put warning on cups about temps why not on a huge kayak?
It works for manufacturer liability but will likely have little effect on paddler safety. Paddlers need to educate themselves, and have the motivation to seek out that education. Right now people who arent seeking out their own are being educated by whatever they encounter by chance from the kayak industry, and IMO the entire kayak industry does a poor job of emphasizing the dangers in favor of emphasizing how safe kayaking is or _can be. _
Kayakmedic, I’ve rarely heard the local news talking about water temperature unless its in conjunction with rip current warnings ( a very, very recent thing) or a recent death. I’m sure it gets mentioned from time to time but everybody who lives near Lake Superior is well aware of how cold it usually is.
Here in the south water temperature may be quoted in a fishing report, but rarely the hazard of cold water. One exception I do remember was when 1 NFL football player (Tampa Bay Buccaneer I think) survived a boating mishap in the Gulf. He survived. if I recall correctly, because he pulled himself out of the water onto the hull of the boat. The ones in the water holding onto the boat died. They talked about the cold winter Gulf water being the cause of the drownings. I believe it was in the low to mid 60’s. This was reported as a revelation to some degree.
I feel the danger of cold water should be emphasized when reporting on drownings. People tend to read these reports or watch them on the news. The warnings thus reported would accompany the report of the consequential outcome resulting in death.
I am sure people would still die in cold water, but I also believe it would more strongly imprint on many folks. Folks that might otherwise die if they hadn’t read or seen the report. This type of news can reach a wide audience. However, most reporters are probably not aware of the danger.
People go buy a pool toy kayak and it floats or even an expensive one. They have zero clue they could be floating in the water easily. They feel I have a PFD what could happen I’m safe. People don’t see ice or frigid water they see 60-55° or stick their finger in and go not bad. Most don’t get even that far.
There were plenty of cold water warnings broadcast by the two t.v stations in my region of the Great Lakes this spring. I was pleasantly surprised. Water temperature is often mentioned during the weather forecasts during the summer and am guessing it will be noted more often as the lakes cool down.
As to warning labels on kayaks, ever buy a ladder? If so, did you carefully read each warning label? Ladders are plastered with warnings yet it’s claimed there are over 500,000 falls from ladders annually, with 97% of the accidents taking place at home or on farms. https://tinyurl.com/y76mn2zt
The government and manufacturers can’t babysit each individual. I think it comes down to personal responsibility. A lack of curiosity or interest in learning about a new sport or hobby can lead to bad choices which don’t end well.
Since most here are quite committed to paddling safely, if you think your local media is lacking in awareness, why not send a friendly email to your local sports reporter providing salient information and ask it be passed on?
They give water temps on local news but no warnings of dangers. Warning labels on tons of things. Sorry but many are clueless on water temp and safety. People here in spring abound in kayaks water in 30"s and 40"s air in 70s zero protection. Visor in my car says wear your seatbelt and SUV may roll over label in a kayak about water temps won’t hurt a sole if they already know. Every time in your car a bell goes off to wear a belt.
Nothing to be sorry about. Lots of people are clueless. Question is whether sticking a label in a kayak about cold water will fix anything. I don’t think so.
Someone has to assume they can capsize in order to care.And that is where the biggest failure happens - people go out assuming they “won’t” capsize. Can’t fix that.
I guess it depends on where you live. Here in Maine we have lost a lot of folks to cold water drowning… I am not getting into a pissing match but the information IS presented. You have to listen and you have to heed… I’ve heard more than once " Yeah yeah I know but I am not going to capsize" I live on a lake and until June it is cold… I see a lot of rec kayaks with people wearing little in May and I do speak up. Every single TV station gives cold water warnings when appropriate… Of course they also give the buoy temps in the ocean along with advisories for rip currents
You just cannot force people to listen or to read.
@kayamedic said:
I guess it depends on where you live. Here in Maine we have lost a lot of folks to cold water drowning… I am not getting into a pissing match but the information IS presented. You have to listen and you have to heed… I’ve heard more than once " Yeah yeah I know but I am not going to capsize" I live on a lake and until June it is cold… I see a lot of rec kayaks with people wearing little in May and I do speak up. Every single TV station gives cold water warnings when appropriate… Of course they also give the buoy temps in the ocean along with advisories for rip currents
You just cannot force people to listen or to read.
Yup. The price of freedom is sometimes the “right” to choose stupidly. All sorts of advisories out right now for people to stay out of the ocean breaks because of rough surf and rip currents. Yet, on TV, we see all types of surfers out there surfing some nice clean swells rolling in. Admittedly, I am one of them.
@kayamedic said:
I guess it depends on where you live. Here in Maine we have lost a lot of folks to cold water drowning… I am not getting into a pissing match but the information IS presented. You have to listen and you have to heed… I’ve heard more than once " Yeah yeah I know but I am not going to capsize" I live on a lake and until June it is cold… I see a lot of rec kayaks with people wearing little in May and I do speak up. Every single TV station gives cold water warnings when appropriate… Of course they also give the buoy temps in the ocean along with advisories for rip currents
You just cannot force people to listen or to read.
Yup. The price of freedom is sometimes the “right” to choose stupidly. All sorts of advisories out right now for people to stay out of the ocean breaks because of rough surf and rip currents. Yet, on TV, we see all types of surfers out there surfing some nice clean swells rolling in. Admittedly, I am one of them.