@string said:
Darwin has an award for a reason.
Paddlers will only rarely qualify for that award since most of us have taken up paddling after giving our contribution to the gene pool.
(Some may be tempted to theorise on whether the incident in this particular thread could qualify. Please resist that temptation.)
A big part of the problem is that most people are swaddled in a life of climate controlled obliviousness and have little or no concept of how vulnerable the human body is to cold, heat, wind and wetness.
I just finished reading the most recent issue of “Appalachia” , the biannual journal of mountaineering and conservation in the US Northeast. At least half of the articles were reports of blissfully ignorant hikers and campers having to be rescued (or perishing) who ventured out into a wilderness with some of the worst weather on the planet outfitted as if they were taking a 2 block walk to the dog park in their urban neighborhood. One incident involved a school group of 47 teenagers and 7 adults who attempted to hike up to the summit of Mount Washington in New Hampshire’s Presidential Range. All were ridiculously underdressed for conditions (which evolved, as predicted and as they had been warned, to 40 degree rain with 50 mph winds gusting over 70) – most of the kids were wearing jeans or leggings, sneakers, cotton sweatshirts and plastic ponchos. 4 girls dropped behind and became lost until after dark – the main party knew they were missing but chose to hike down and off the mountain leaving them behind. Several SAR groups had to mobilize to find the final teen after 3 of the “lost girls” managed to stagger into a staffed warming hut, hypothermic and confused about where they had left their companion. This was just one of dozens of similar incidents for the past season.
This is hardly a new phenomenon. Though it may be exacerbated by people’s hubris over having a cell phone and believing that offers some magical instant access to rescue. Over the decades when I was often guiding or participating in backpacking, long training hikes or mountaineering, there were many instances when our well-prepared party encountered people woefully under-equipped in both gear and expertise to be out in the wilderness and in trouble because of it. At times we had to abandon our own plans and execute an evacuation of the clueless. On one occasion we came upon a bedraggled wannabee “mountain man” 3 day’s walk from the trailhead who had accidentally burned his tent and sleeping bag beyond usability by building a lean to of fallen pine boughs that his roaring campfire ignited. He had also lost his knife and compass, and was hypothermic due to his leather boots, denim jeans, cotton long johns and corduroy coat being soaked through. Plus he reported that he had not had anything to eat for several days once his jerky ran out (he had been planning to “live off the land” , I guess by ambushing rabbits with his Bowie knife.)
One of the guys I was backpacking with recognized this sad sack as the same guy that he and some friends had rescued the previous summer when they came upon him along a river they were paddling – he was claiming someone had “stolen” his canoe with all his gear in it. They made room for him and took him downriver to the nearest access to a road where he could hitchhike back to his car. After dropping him off they eventually spotted his aluminum boat, swamped and hung up on the rocks ahead of a class II rapid. Various bits of what must have been his gear and grub turned up downstream as well. They had his contact info and called him when they got home to tell him where they spotted the boat. He then admitted that he had gotten cold and wet after a capsize and had pulled ashore to build a fire to get warm (and drink some whiskey he had brought along). He neglected to tie the canoe off or pull it up the bank. Rain upstream had apparently risen the river and floated his boat away. Despite him being a “frequent flyer” we bailed his ass out again. No doubt he continued to blunder into the woods or perhaps became a statistic the next time it happened and nobody was around to help him out.
Really, you are never going to fix stupidity, naivety and/or hubris.
And it is good judgement (as opposed to hubris and only gained through experience) rather than equipment that is most critical. I am still sometimes haunted by the recollection of the trio of dudes that came into the outfitter that I managed in my late 20’s – they were seeking to buy some supplies for a trip they were planning to climb a peak in the Peruvian Andes. Two of them were former military and all 3 had gone through a basic mountaineering course (though it was mostly rock climbing with some local ice climbing and backpacking thrown in.) None of them had ever traveled on a glacier or even camped on snow yet they were confident they could “conquer” a 22,000 foot alpine mountain, apparently through “toughness”. As I talked to them while they were collecting the list of items they planned to take, it came out that, though they had climbing gear (harnesses and ropes) they were planning to climb wearing military jungle boots (designed for tropical conditions) and sleep “rough” in Army poncho liners (also a tropical piece of gear.) Several of my friends, including my beau at the time, had climbed that mountain 2 years earlier and I knew well what conditions they would encounter and that their kit was woefully inadequate. I consulted with the shop owner, a very experienced alpine mountaineer, and he agreed that we should try to convince them to properly equip themselves. We got them to buy proper boots, sleeping bags, a three man tent, clothing for alpine conditions, a stove that would work at altitude, ice axes and crampons.
We also suggested a couple of state-side shake-down mountains that they should practice on before their trip to Peru (they were going down during Austral summer, several month later in January). They swore they would do that, but it turned out later they never bothered. End result – all three died, their bodies found after a storm just below the summit, one with no gloves and another with no ice axe. It appeared that one or both had fallen and they had been dragged down the slope roped together, but they clearly should not have been climbing in those conditions. When I heard what had happened I wondered: if we had not insisted that they equip themselves more properly, would they have even made it far beyond base camp before turning back out of discomfort?
You can lead a young man in the right direction, but don’t expect him to pay attention .
I lead a hiking club for a few years at work. We had a young couple who never listened.
We hiked up Mt. LeConte in the fall on a damp day. Everyone was asked to dress appropriately but they showed up in jeans and sweatshirts. Halfway up the mountain the rain began and shortly, she was turning blue. Fortunately, some hikers came along with a stove and we got some hot liquid in her. We made ponchos out of trash bags and got them back to the trailhead.Half of the group went on.
Somehow , she wound up driving another family’s van back to our cabin, and managed to slide it off the road. Half was hanging over the edge of a 200’ slope. The occupants crawled out the back doors.
They never came with us again.
Broke my heart.
You are so sensitive string. :’(
It was late December, and we were camped in the Smoky mountains on top of Mt. Sterling. Our tents were on icy snow and it was 5 F. It was dark and we had a decent fire when a man and his about 13 year old daughter from Ohio showed up in camp after climbing 6 relentless miles and several thousand feet. He pitched the tent and she was almost in tears saying she was hungry and cold we said stand by the fire and gave her some snacks as he cooked their meal and hot coco. She complained about the cold, and got in her sleeping bag. Later that night she woke everyone up crying about the cold. The next morning we had to argue with him to go back. He said Ohio was colder than NC, and they planned to do 20miles in those mountains. We said at 6,000 feet they were in the Canadian zone. They were not prepared for this, and it was obvious her sleeping bag wasn’t warm enough. He had his daughter for the holiday and wanted to introduce her to backpacking we convince him she would despise it if he tried to hike 20 mile that day in below 20 F weather. We knew then he couldn’t meet his expectations and she certainly couldn’t. We said ask her what she would like to do and head down the mountain and do it. Take her backpacking when the weather is cool and the bugs aren’t bad, and forget 20 mile days with a pack on her back. Think 5 to 10 at the most in the beginning. He realized we were right, and they headed back down the mountain. Didn’t know how far he could travel in a day or how severe the weather would be. I bet she still talks about that cold night.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Still believe many don’t have a clue bold warnings in the hull can’t do any harm. If it saves some I am for it.
I think we should put bold warnings on the waterbodies. All of them. Something like “This lake/river/ocean may contain water which can lead to drowning and or waves, cold temperatures which lead to hypothermia, sharp rocks, barnacles, fishhooks, sharks, stingrays, shipwrecks, sleepers, sweepers, spring peepers or brain eating amoebas, Do not allow children in the water unsupervised. Do not immerse head while breathing. If water is respirated, seek medical attention. Water temperatures may change. Air temperatures may change. Wind conditions may change. Wave conditions may change. If you stay out too long it may get dark. If you stay out even longer it may get light again…” etc etc etc
You have a bell in your car to put a belt on why? Face it people don’t know how deadly 60° water is. Sticker is not worth a life? Do not remove this tag from your pillow.
every other Friday afternoon I call a friend or he calls me as he drives home fron work. His “bell” is ringing every time, because he has the ability to just ignore it. If you dont know and don’t take the time to educate yourself about the dangers of a huge, deep, cold body of water like Lake Superior or just don’t care, a warning label isnt going to help you.
I remember when they mandated a car wouldn’t start until the belt was fastened (around 1974). Drove the car washes crazy and didn’t last long. We use to reach in and start the car before getting in. They had sensors in the seats that could be bypassed.
If theres a tag on my pillow I’ve never read it except maybe before washing.
This is going to alarm some people, but I’ve also inserted q-tips in my ear canal. For decades.
@qajaqman said:
If theres a tag on my pillow I’ve never read it except maybe before washing.
I tore mine off.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Still believe many don’t have a clue bold warnings in the hull can’t do any harm. If it saves some I am for it.
Did an informal survey at a local Dunham’s and another sporting goods store. Perception, Old Towne, Pelican, Necky, Hurricane, and Ocean kayaks do have warning stickers in the cockpit. Warnings include wearing PFD, cold water/hypothermia, don’t drink, taking lessons, etc. and even suggesting you consult with your physician before you start paddling.
Sun Dolphin kayaks had nothing. Here’s Sun Dolphin’s contact info: http://www.sundolphin.com/contact-us/
@castoff said:
You are so sensitive string. :’(It was late December, and we were camped in the Smoky mountains on top of Mt. Sterling. Our tents were on icy snow and it was 5 F. It was dark and we had a decent fire when a man and his about 13 year old daughter from Ohio showed up in camp after climbing 6 relentless miles and several thousand feet. He pitched the tent and she was almost in tears saying she was hungry and cold we said stand by the fire and gave her some snacks as he cooked their meal and hot coco. She complained about the cold, and got in her sleeping bag. Later that night she woke everyone up crying about the cold. The next morning we had to argue with him to go back. He said Ohio was colder than NC, and they planned to do 20miles in those mountains. We said at 6,000 feet they were in the Canadian zone. They were not prepared for this, and it was obvious her sleeping bag wasn’t warm enough. He had his daughter for the holiday and wanted to introduce her to backpacking we convince him she would despise it if he tried to hike 20 mile that day in below 20 F weather. We knew then he couldn’t meet his expectations and she certainly couldn’t. We said ask her what she would like to do and head down the mountain and do it. Take her backpacking when the weather is cool and the bugs aren’t bad, and forget 20 mile days with a pack on her back. Think 5 to 10 at the most in the beginning. He realized we were right, and they headed back down the mountain. Didn’t know how far he could travel in a day or how severe the weather would be. I bet she still talks about that cold night.
Sensitive! I used to say if you want sensitive, wear a skirt.
I have since gotten to know some really tough women, several of whom are nurses. Very competent, resourceful people.
Harm a warning label does?
You think are as educated about 60° as they are about seat belts?
@PaddleDog52 said:
Harm a warning label does?
Perhaps none, and perhaps the harm is thinking it does any good.
@qajaqman said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
Harm a warning label does?Perhaps none, and perhaps the harm is thinking it does any good.
It protects the manufacturer.
Don’t suppose anyone noticed kayakmedic’s image…
That’s normal
Nobody spells my moniker right anyhoo
Most of the choir has left
@kayamedic said:
Nobody spells my moniker right anyhoo
Yours and Seadddict’s are tricky. Gotta be careful to skip the “k” and add the third “d.” 
