it's perfectly ok to get a ruddered kayak but if the rational is that you have dificulty keeping a course or turning because you aren't strong then your forward stroke and sweep strokes need a review and maybe the Shadow is too long/heavy for your needs.
The Shadow will weathercock and the stern can get into a zigzagging swing if you find yourself overcorrecting by paddling harder on one side and then the other. The problem with dropping your rudder is that you might have an inefficient forward and sweep strokes that the rudder is masking. Also if your turning is reduced to what the rudder can do it's BIG circles you're struggling with.
There are other kayaks that won't weathercock as much but for the sake of your joints and a predisposition for overuse injury try out the Manitou 13 and and the Necky Eliza. It'll teach you right away how to go straight and course corrections will be very easy. The plastic Eliza comes with a rudder, the Manitou is a very easy moved rec. kayak without any tracking aid but as a lesson boat for looking at your strokes it's a good choice.
Yes "This just isn’t a place to be for someone who wants a boat to keep them upright and dry, unless it has a motor."
If she’s paddling with experienced people who understand her capabilities, this might be OK.
I think she might be trying to optimize too many things: fast, dry, stable, etc.
It doesn’t seem to me that the Shadow would not be about right for her (given her weight). It’s possible that her complaints about the Shadow might be a hint that she’s asking for too much.
Even though they are typically fibreglass, she should try a Romany. It might be what she is looking for (except it isn’t fast).
Given her current capabilities, I am not that optimistic about the effectiveness of “self rescues”).
Demo the smaller WS Zephyr. Seriously consider learning to roll. It's fun and it's not a 'strength' thing if done properly. Get a neoprene skirt for sure and consider switching to a Greenland paddle. Uhhh... the wanting to stay high and dry thing marks you as a beginner. If you want to take it to the next level get low and sideways and upside down and enjoy getting wet.
me again Thanks all for chiming in. Yes, I am a beginner, and don’t mind being marked as such! But I’m not really worried about getting wet. I don’t care about my hair, and I dress in appropriate clothing for the conditions, whether that be quick dry stuff for hot weather/warmer water, or for colder weather/water a wet suit, or a semi-dry top and pants.
My concern about the water coming into my cockpit was that, in comparison to my boyfriend’s kayak which was in the same conditions as mine, it made me question my boat’s reliability too see it comparatively swamped out. I was panicking a bit about how my boat would do on the Maine coast if it was getting swamped out in mildly rough conditions on Lake George. So, no fear of water or getting wet, and no resistance to wearing a spray skirt - - I’m all for it. From reading these responses, I see that maybe it isn’t such a bad thing that my boat rides so low, and that’s good. I do still question its ultimate stability in rougher water, given its rounded hull.
And yes, I probably mean something different by “big water” than what others would mean. But I understand that any coastal waters can turn into “big water” at the drop of a hat, especially in Maine.
I also understand that the lack of rescue skills among all of our kayaking buddies is a liability, which is why I am taking the course in June. I am encouraging them all to come, but I can’t make them, and I love them all so I still want them to paddle with us. Several do know how to do rescue, my BF included, and the group sticks together. So self rescue is unlikely to be needed, but is still a skill I would like to know, being the “careful” one of the bunch.
Oh, and BF weighs about 190, and is 5’10". He uses his spray skirt in rougher conditions, he just didn’t think he would need it that day, and he didn’t. Good thing I had mine on, though!
I don’t have a problem with the Shadow’s gear capacity at all. We are light campers and I can fairly easily fit everything I need in/on it, and could probably get away with a smaller capacity bulkhead. We are also backpackers, so being able to carry everything in a boat rather than on my back is a luxury for me.
My arm weakness is a new issue for me, and a frustrating one. It’s a long and boring story, but suffice to say I would have my arms in better shape (and have in the past) if I possibly could. I am getting physical therapy but have limited chance for significant improvement. I have given up other activities such as yoga and gardening so that I can save my arms for kayaking. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to take a course to build my skills and get the best boat for my abilities.
Given that the rudder helps with speed and keeping me straight with less paddling (thereby reducing strain on my arms), I will always have a boat with a rudder. I realize it limits skill development, but those are skills I might not be able to develop anyway.
I have a Swift fiberglass/carbon paddle, can’t remember the length and it is in storage at the moment. It came used with the kayak, and the guy who owned it was my height/weight and seemed to know his stuff, whatever that’s worth. It is light which is good for me, and I prefer it over other plastic bladed paddles I’ve tried. But if anyone thinks the paddle could be a problem I am glad to hear more.
I am from CT, and although I’m not a member of ConnYak my friend is. I have the AMC paddling schedule and was hoping to join some of the paddles this summer, so keep an eye out for my yellow/red shadow. I will be doing my lessons at Collinsville C&K as well as some demos.
Hmm, not sure if I answered everything, and I will definitely read all of your responses more carefully. Thanks for all of your help!
It is completely fine being a beginner. The issue is that some of the comments being made aren't necessarily appropriate for you right now.
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In a sea kayak, it's you that provides the stability. It's possible that your problem with stability is that you are locking your upper body instead of keeping your hips loose. This is something that can take a bit of time for it to be automatic.
There are some kayaks that take more attention to keep from rolling over but the Shadow should not be one of those (it isn't considered an "advanced" boat). The Shadow is a good boat. It's possible that there is a better boat for you. You'll only find that boat by paddling it. (And the more you learn, the better you will be able to pick a boat).
It's important not to get stuck on a quest for a magic "perfect" boat that will solve all your problems. Paddling is a physical skill and sometimes it's hard. But, it's mostly the paddler and not the boat.
I would suggest sticking with the Shadow and try some other about 16ft long boats. Go try somebody's Romany.
It's common for sea kayaks to take water on in waves. That's why you use a skirt! I never paddle without a skirt because I don't want to have to think about whether or not what I am doing needs a skirt.
It's possible that aren't using enough torso rotation when paddling. If you lean back into the seat, you won't be able to paddle as efficiently and you will have to rely on your arm strength more. Leaning back will also contribute to your stability problems. Ideally, you should be able to paddle without the seat/back-support. This can take some time to get enough strength to be able to do this.
You should learn to self-rescue (why not?). Just don't expect it to work very well in rough water.
I don't think there is any reason you can't learn boat control without the rudder. I'd encourage you to do so, even if you end-up preferring to use the rudder for normal paddling.
you are right to get a rudder better to have it and not need it than the other way around. I have always had rudders on my boats and would never have it any other way. If they don’t have rudders, they will get them. I don’t really see the point in “skill developement” when those skills are completely eliminated by having a rudder. You don’t need to learn to ride a horse if you have a car.
Personally, I don't care one way or another about people's preferences or not for rudders.
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"I don't really see the point in "skill developement" when those skills are completely eliminated by having a rudder."
While you are free to feel this way, it's a bit sad.
Oddly, rudders don't work that well for turing the boat. That is, with the right technique, you can turn the boat quicker than you can with a rudder. Also, rudders don't work if you aren't moving forward.
Learning technique is interesting and rewarding, anyway.
CTYakker's description of the purpose of rudders is spot on!
With more info… it sounds like you would be well served by exploring greenland paddling, to reduce the strain on your joints.
Re your boat, stability and Maine water - you have to do two things. The second is to go to a neo deck skirt, and the first is to get practiced at wet exits and other skills that will assure you are safe using it.
And I suspect you don’t like this answer - but you need to start learning a roll and deep braces. The good news is that the basic greenland roll is very, very easy on the joints. There is reallty no strength involved - it’s all flexibility.
You may have to pad out the Shadow a bit, but padding is usually no big deal.
I think that once the weather is warmer Jay Babina starts doing free practice sessions at some pond in CT, or used to. The ConnYak folks probably know for sure.
One comment re clothing for Maine - in summer your better combo is drywear unless you can roll to cool off. The air can be in the 70’s and the water still in the 50’s, so any time you are not in the water the apt wet wear for the water will be stinking hot. Or you dress for the air temps and time in the water doing a self or assisted rescue is a chilly event.
That’s the biggest single reason to roll actually. A rescue that could otherwise take a couple of minutes, even done quickly, is all of 8 to 10 seconds of being wet with a roll. And a lot less tiring.
self rescue in rough water I’ve read a couple times in this thread that self-rescues aren’t practical in rough water, and I wanted to speak up with another viewpoint.
There are a variety of ways to get yourself back in your boat without assistance, and for virtually any conditions, there is a self-rescue that is appropriate.
I think telling beginners to learn to self rescue, and then telling them that it isn’t going to work, is not helpful (and in my opinion not accurate).
Cowboy rescues are totally doable in pretty big waves, with practice. Re-enter and roll (with or without a paddle float) is possible in even the biggest seas.
Bottom line is, learn self-rescues, practice them, and challenge yourself to do them in harder, more realistic conditions. When the big one hits, and you’re swimming, it’s entirely likely that your paddling companions might also be in the water, and you’ll need to rely on rescuing your own self first.
strange I have found that my rudders can turn my boats pretty darn quick.
Usually if one is not moving they don’t need to turn either.
Basic sweeps, draws, prys etc are nice to have, but if you have a rudder, they are completely unnecessary for general turning. Leaning is a joke kayakers play on new kayakers so they can watch them struggle to turn and then tip over in surf.
I guess my point is that if you have a rudder, you will be able to get out and enjoy putting in some miles rather than swimming after trying to lean in waves and wind, frustrating yourself paddling in circles, and becoming a liability to others you paddle with when you can’t keep up.
rudder or skeg = tool I don’t understand what having a rudder has to do with skill development but I understand that they are tools that could be used at some times and avoided at other.
Consider scenario of paddling north during a strong westerly wind. With skeg or rudder fully deployed the wind will push your bow to the east. (similar to having a boat tied by the stern to a buoy).
With skeg raised up your bow will probably turn into the wind (west).
Skeg halfway up and some edging and corrective strokes and you’ll be going north just fine.
The problem is that people learn self rescues on flatwater and expect that they will be as easy to do in rough water.
What I'm trying to avoid is her going out alone in rough water and expecting a self-rescue to work (without trying it). Keep in mind that she has some physical issues that we probably don't know everything about. Giving cautious advice to somebody we really don't know is prudent.
my point was using a rudder or a skeg will not suit you in all conditions. Eventually you will still hit situations where either of these two is useless and you need to use different skills to get from point A to point B.
But I’m not really worried about getting wet. I don’t care about my hair, and I dress in appropriate clothing for the conditions, whether that be quick dry stuff for hot weather/warmer water, or for colder weather/water a wet suit, or a semi-dry top and pants.