Any guesses???
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/jaystormart/Mohawk.jpg
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/jaystormart/Mohawk2.jpg
i don’t know
Looks more like a whitesell Descender
hmmmm…
It would be cool if it was…
I don’t have to guess…
– Last Updated: Apr-23-09 7:24 PM EST –
I don't have to guess; I know.
If it came from Indiana I can probably even tell you who you bought it from.
It is either a Mohawk Rogue, or a Mohawk Scamp.
If it is about 14'2" it's a Rogue.
If it is about 14'5" it's a Scamp.
Both of them weight about 60 lbs without outfitting.
Both have a beam of approximately 33".
The Scamp is approximately 1/2 inch deeper(at 15 1/2 inches) than the Rogue (at 15 inches).
Yours looks like a 13 footer in the photos.
There "just might be" a reason that it looks similiar to a Whitesell Descender; especially if it's a Scamp.
That would be because the Scamp was designed by Nolan Whitesell.
Both hulls are "old school" whitewater solos from the late 80s.
The Rogue could be bought for about $585.00 in l987. The Scamp was about $650.00.
There was also a model called the Rogue XL.
Basically the only difference was the depth dimensions between the Rogue & the Rogue XL.
The Rogue depths was 21/15/21.
The Rogue XL depths was 22/16/22.
The Rogue XL was about $595.00.
In 1989 the Scamp was listed at 14'4" in length.
The Rogue XL was listed at 13'3" and was being called a "playboat".
There was also Rogue XL 14 and Rogue XL 15 in l989.
It is my opinion that the Rogues later got some hull & name changes & turned into the Mohawk XL 13, XL 14, and XL 15.
The hulls had extra reenforcement in each end,
Both had roto molded polyethylene decks, and vinyl gunwales reinforced with aluminum. Thwarts of aluminum. Decks & gunwales were kind of a light brown; very close to a "puke" color.
I've paddled a Scamp. At the time I owned & paddled a 12'2" Mohawk Probe 12 II. It felt like I had stepped out of a PT boat(the Probe) & into a battleship(the Scamp).No doubt in my mind that the Scamp would have taken a beating & completely ignored it.
It was built to take abuse, but it was fairly slow & not very manueverable when compared to my Probe 12 II, which would spin on a quarter & give you change. BUT on the other hand, there were a lot of old school boats that would have had similiar issues if compared to a Probe 12II. Another good example would be the Old Town H2Pro. Which is not to say that an experienced & strong paddler couldn't get either through class 3 & 4. I wouldn't want to have tried it.
I'm pretty sure Nolan Whitesell would have taken it down the Grand Canyon & not thought too much about it.
You have a piece of whitewater canoe history on your hands. Enjoy it; it'll work.
Whitesell Descender; I would crawl over some broken glass to get my hands on one in primo condition. One boat I really wanted that has eluded me for years.
BOB
Thanks
– Last Updated: Apr-23-09 7:28 PM EST –
I'm looking for something that will handle solid class II+ rapids, maybe a lone class III.
I'm in Georgia, I'm looking for something I can take down the Cartecay River, the Upper Hooch, the Etowah, the Hiwassee and similar runs, maybe even the Nantahala, but that's about the limit of my paddling skill and ambition. Would this boat work for that???
Thanks, Jay
ps, Is this boat most likely Royalex, or something else?
yes
Royalex. Put some air bags in it. It’ll work great.
Yes!
– Last Updated: Apr-23-09 8:25 PM EST –
Yes! It is Royalex.
Yes! It will handle the Nantahala(been there/done it about 25 times), or any other similiar river of high class II or low class III level. Probably a little wet if you plow into standing waves instead of quartering them.
I'd want to have large air bags; it must weigh nearly 70 pounds when completely outfitted.
In the hands of a highly skilled paddler it could probably handle the Ocoee, or section III & IV of the Chattooga. Key words there are "highly skilled".
BOB
Thanks
Thanks so much for your time and advice!
other runs
Some other runs in the area you should consider are section II of the Chatooga, the Conasauga (along the border with TN) the Locust Fork of the Black Warrior River and perhaps Town Creek in Alabama and maybe South Chickamauga Creek (more of a float trip).
Looks Like
It looks much like the Scamps I’ve seen except that I don’t recall the double thwart behind the saddle.
Big wide OC1. Plenty stable. Moderatly manuverable for a whitewater hull. Tough to get a good cross forward stroke unless you are fairly tall in the saddle.
Tommy
Probe? Shaman?
New Photos and stats
http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p285/jaystormart/Canoe/
The beam at widest is 33 inches. The boat is @ 14 feet, 2 inches long. Which suggests a Rogue from earlier posts. The last 2 digits of the serial number are 87, which I assume means made in 1987.
The hull appears to be unfaded and in good condition, except for the specific gouges in the photo album. Only the large one in the bow actually penetrates the red outer layer of the material, but does not puncture all the way through. Being unfamiliar with Royalex, I am unsure if and when any of these places need patching/repair (advice is appreciated).
Obviously, I need flotation bags, and I need to glue down some new D-Rings. Each end was set up with only one D-Ring, is that enough, or should I outfit her differently???
The Perception saddle is uhm, interesting. It’s fairly comfortable, and I like the ease of changing from sitting to kneeling. The thigh tree, or whatever you call it, isn’t nearly wide enough for me, my knees and thighs fit just outside of it in a kneeling position (I’m a big dude). However, my knees come the sides of the hull, with some minicell glued in the right place, I would have decent side to side control of this boat. At some point I’ll need a different seating situation (especially for goofing around in class I and II), but for now, it will do, I’m not quite comfy with idea of being all strapped in quite yet.
Again, any advice for outfitting or preparing this boat for the water would be greatly appreciated.
I’m taking her to the lake to feel her out tomorrow!
outfitting
– Last Updated: Apr-24-09 10:10 PM EST –
I thought it was a Rogue. The Scamp looked more like a Whitesell Piranha.
You might be able to cover the end damage completely with a "grunge" or skid plate of ABS. There are other ways of repairing it, but a skid plate may cover up the bash, or it may not. I can't tell from the photo.
The deep scratch and gouge don't look that bad from the photo. You can probably just fill them with either Gflex epoxy or plexus. Gflex is made by Gougeon Brothers who make the popular West System epoxy: http://www.gougeonbrothers.com/G-flex/index.html.
There is another current thread on Royalex repair with a link for Plexus which is an alternative. The scratch may actually need to be "guttered out" a bit to get a good bond. Cracks and punctures that threaten the structural integrity of the boat can be repaired with fiberglass, usually applied to the interior. Most folks remove the vinyl liner on the area of repair. It used to be tough to get glass to bond to Royalex, but people seem to be having excellent results with Gflex epoxy.
The Perception saddle was widely criticized for putting the knees too close together for good control. But then, Nolan Whitesell could hands roll his canoe using that saddle. It should certainly work to start with. At some point, you may wish to switch to a foam pedestal and knee straps. Some "old school" boaters still use a kneeling thwart, which is cheaper, and sufficient for what you intend to do.
Make sure that the saddle is properly positioned in the boat so that the canoe is trimmed either neutral or a bit bow light. A lot of whitewater newbies trim their boats very bow light but that makes control difficult, especially on upstream ferries and eddy turns. If you sit in the saddle and kneel with your body upright, your navel should be about at the center of the boat. You can also put the boat in the water, and have an observer check the trim as you move forward and back.
You already have gunnel lacing. To complete a minimal bag cage, all you need is some 3/4" or 1" flat webbing and some plastic "triglides". Make a "keeper strap" with the webbing that goes around the carry handle on the deck at the end of the canoe, over the bag and down to the D ring on the canoe floor. You can make a little more elaborate bag cage by adding a couple more lightweight D ring patches on each end of the boat. Check this link and download the end bag cage instructions: http://www.mikeyeeoutfitting.com/instructions.htm.
If you need to glue more vinyl D ring patches to the bottom of the hull, most people use Vynabond adhesive. Mark the patch postion, lightly sand the gray inner vinyl layer with 80 or 100 grit sandpaper, clean with acetone and use Vynabond as per directions.
You can find a few sites online that discuss whitewater open boat outfitting with a simple search. There are different schools of thought, different preferences, and generally you need to modify your outfitting a few times to get it right.
Cboats.net also has a lot of archived threads on outfitting and boat repair, and if you run into difficulties you can always come back here.
Good luck with the boat. You live in a great area for canoeing. Have fun.
Thanks
Thanks Again for all the info!
Outfitting…
– Last Updated: Apr-24-09 11:53 PM EST –
Jay.........
If you haven't checked it out yet; go to the Mohawk Canoes website, and check out their outfitting section. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
Following the same train of thought(pictures vs words); I'll send you a couple of photos of the outfitting on my Mohawk Probe 12 & Probe 12 II. Hopefully, those will help you a little too.
Good luck,
BOB