Upgrading from Pungo 140 ?

Pretty much just as it says but to what ? I’m a pretty long time paddler, decades though mostly canoe. The Pungo is about 12 Yo. I have no qualms really with it except I would like more class II and III nibleness. It’s good for most else but I find myself leaving it at home when we head to a river.

Any thoughts ?

My short list so far includes 1 boat, the Dagger Alchemy 14 ft. I have not investigated beyond that nor paddeled it yet. Finding one locally may be tricky on Cape Cod.

my first
thought was, if you want more nimble white water capability why go from a 14 ft rec boat to another 14 ft rec boat? An 6 ft squirt boat might be too much of a change but how about something like the 11 ft dagger green boat or one from their axis line?

Good points. I think some are not clear
that blundering a long kayak through a class 3 provides a veridical experience of class 3.

Whitewater river runner

– Last Updated: Jul-14-14 6:40 PM EST –

would be the category of kayak that most ww kayakers would probably recommend for you for class 3 (for example, liquid logic remix -- not the XP9 or 10). The river runner is contrasted with a whitewater playboat or creek boat (those are the three main types of ww kayaks). Thye would also recommend that you get WW-specific instruction (lots of catching eddies and leaning your boat) and learn to roll if you don't already have that under your belt.

However, if you are more comfortable with the idea, you COULD try one of the crossovers like the Pyranha Fusion or the LL XP 9 or 10 -- I haven't kept up with the other "crossovers." If you can't roll, you will have to wet exit and swim if you flip -- which MAY NOT happen all that much in class III. Another option would be an inflatable kayak designed for WW, such as the AIRE Tributary Tomcat -- you aren't enclosed in those.

These WW designed boats will be WAY more maneuverable than a kayak designed to track well (sea kayak, touring kayak, even rec kayak) -- there may be exceptions to this rule.

Edit: there are also WW sit-on-tops, such as the Torrent -- not sure who makes that. LL used to market their Coupe as a WW sit-on-top, but seem to be de-empasizing the WW part recently -- maybe too many customers flipped it in WW.

Keep the Pungo
Find a used whitewater kayak, and use the difference for whitewater lessons. Here’s one on the Cape:


Upgrading from Pungo 140 ?
Thanks everyone ! Ya, after I posted this yesterday I did think that maybe I should just keep the Pungo and add a boat. At my age I’m not rolling any boats FWIW, so I have to swim, that’s ok. Of course evacuating a pungo is a whole different thing from one of these boats you guys suggest. You just kind of fall out of the pungo ! But really this is more class II anyway, I thought it good if III was able to be done in the next kayak I get in case I run into that in some stretch of river. My MO is more day tripping than playing FWIW.

ah, no rolling, ok…
I believe Fluid (WW manufacturer) makes a Sit-on-Top (SOT = very easy to “evacuate”); as is a WW inflatable. The XP10 cockpit opening is huge, so also pretty easy to evacuate. I happen to have an XP10 and use it in Class II and under rivers (I have a different boat for lakes). While my poly touring kayak (necky manitou 14) was pretty good in moving rivers up to class II, the XP10 is way more manueverable and fun for that – it is not so fun on still water (pushes through vs. cuts through). The XP10 could do fine in class III and above (skilled boaters run the Grand Canyon in them).

SOT is out I think

– Last Updated: Jul-15-14 3:33 PM EST –

I'm just not a fan. I need a little dry compartment for day trips as well, lunch, snack, camera maybe. The Pungo was bought for Cape Cod estuaries and ponds. Maine back lake waters. I canoe more though for Maine and use the Old Town Camper for day trips now up there. Not solo so much. So adding a boat may make some sense, though the wife intends to keep her 12ft Pungo. It is a little better than my 14 for maneuvering. Anyway, originally I thought to get a similar boat, better bottom for rivers with more rocker would do it.

you must
keep the pungo, and the other pungo and the OT.

more boats = better

the dagger Katana 10 footer is class III rated, might be worth a look

Get the Dagger Alchemy
It is my favorite do everything kayak.

By the way, the Pungo 140 is my favorite do everything solo canoe for estuaries and lakes. It is very fast for it’s size and still carries a great load, while being easy to paddle with a single or a double blade.

since you own both
It appears you own the Pungo and Alchemy. Could you describe the difference in handling also anyone know the difference between the 12 ft Axis and a Pungo 120 ? In terms of handling that us. Rocker ? Is there more, is the Alchemy and Axis less or of a keeled boat ? The pungo is fairly V bottomed. They have fairly sharp entry and exit lines. Yet the 120 already maneuvers a bit better than the 140. The 140 a touch faster. A little improvement in these areas would cover my needs. We have two mile stretches of seeming flat water as well as the faster moving water to contend with on a day trip.

I have an Axis 12 and have a few friends with Pungos.

The Axis has a tighter cockpit. It is roomy but I still can connect with the hull with my thighs. You can add thigh hooks for additional control or fit. You probably have to be on the bigger side to connect well or add the hooks and maybe some padding. The cockpit on the Pungo is too big to allow any leg control. You can also add hip pads to an Axis – not sure that would matter at all in a Pungo.

The Axis seat is still a very comfortable and adjustable rec seat but the backrest can be lowered and tightened for a better posture. The Pungo is very much a comfortable rec seat which more encourages one to lean back.

The Axis has a less defined keel and more rocker than a Pungo. The Axis is easier to turn. The Pungo tracks better for people who don’t know how to paddle. The Axis tracks the same with the skeg down. With the skeg up it still tracks great as long as you keep paddling or make minor corrections. You can edge a Axis. Can’t really do that in Pungo.

My less experienced Pungo friends felt the Axis was tippier but quickly got used to it. The also felt like they had more control and felt it paddled better. They didn’t think the seat was as comfortable as the Pungo, even after raising the back from my as low as it goes position. They also disliked being confined and not being easily able to hang their legs out of the kayak.

You can get a skirt for an Axis. I have used mine class 1-3 and never had any problems with my skirt imploding.

Using a skirt on a Pungo is more to keep warm and your legs from being splashed from the paddle. The cockpit is really too big to support a skirt with waves breaking over it.

I’m 6.2 220 lb. The Pungo 14 is 28 wide where the 12 is 29. In the 14 I get pretty good leg bracing ( knees)if I set the pegs right . The cockpit is incredibly roomier than it needs to be non the less. I’m going out and lean the 14 specifically this weekend. The 12 turns well or fairly well without a ton of lean. The 14 is noticeably more slender than the 12. We should be at Scorton Creek or at Old Harbor doing this here on Cape Cod. Though I may hit a local pond first.

Watching videos about the Alchemy
I see that it will out maneuver a Pungo 140 . It has a completely different bottom, almost shallow arch in design and quite a bit of rocker. FWIW.

Upgrading ?
Pungo = half canoe + half kayak.

Decision time - to paddle canoes or kayaks or one of each ?

Find your answer here !