I have a WS Tempest 170, and I love nearly everything about it. I spend quite a bit of time rolling it, and learning more ways to roll. I paddle several small lakes, but the thing I like to do the most, is paddling up rivers, and back down. I spend a fair amount of time on the Mississippi River, but on smaller rivers as well. The smallest river, I sometimes have to spend a little bit of time finding the right spot to turn it around because of the length… but, I love the length. The one and only thing, that I occasionally think about, is wishing it was a little lighter, but… The main reason I originally got this kayak, was to improve the engine that powers it, so the weight isn’t really that big of a deal. The reason I sometimes wish it was lighter, is to help increase my speed… not for loading or unloading.
Next summer, I plan to buy a skin on frame kayak, because… well, they’re cool.
Whenever I read comments about the Tempest 170, I read that it is a good beginners kayak. Keeping in mind that I do often run up and down small rivers, with the potential of scraping rocks with the bottom… But, with the same kayak, I’m hoping to spend some time on Lake Superior next summer… What would be a good upgrade? I can’t see myself ever actually “upgrading”, if I ever come up with too many problems, I’ll probably just buy a new Tempest 170! So… this is just a curiosity thing, more than anything else.
I was going to suggest a composite 170 but it looks like they don’t sell those anymore. There were both around a while ago and from what I saw the composite was faster. Maybe you can find a used one.
So what happened to the fun high end boats we use to have?
The Tempest is a good all around boat for bigger water. You could alter the equation by going for something that was more of a tracker and faster, or less stable hence more entertaining in a fashion (Nordkapp LV) or more maneuverable for stuff like surf but then also slower.
But if you are comfortably seated in the Tempest and have a good relationship with it for stuff like rolling, I am hard pressed to figure what you could do to upgrade other than finding something in composite. It sounds like it is very much your boat.
I expect to take the Nordlow to Maine this summer, with some eldercare issues under control I can make pool sessions and get the roll back on both sides. And assuming I make the time to pad the crap out of it to get the bulkhead block near my feet - Jim got it w/o footpegs.
But the Romany or the Vela will go too, because I am fairly sure no matter how solid I get there will be a lot of days where the Nordlow will not be the best choice.
Well the Tempest 170 is a excellent boat as is and by no means a beginners kayak. I think you will be hard pressed to find a upgrade. As mentioned yes there are lighter boats. Going for a composite boat is a option however the composite Tempest 170 is no longer being made so used is the only option there.
If the plan on buying a skin on frame kayak. This is your upgrade. Going to be a lot lighter and will help with your rolling progression for sure. Just watch the rocks!
The Tempest will be great on Lake Superior as well. Many of the friends paddle the Tempest on the Connecticut coast and Rhode Island no problems.
I agree that the skin on frame is the upgrade because, well because they’re cool!
recentlyI bought a book to learn to make one but I just don’t have room to build it this summer.
just a comment on weight.
Once on the water, other that quick starts (racer?), the weight (to a degree) doesn’t matter that much.
It’s the carry and loading that makes the difference (which it seems does not matter in your case).
For me, protecting a back, long walk to daily paddle, the extra cost and extra care (oyster beds = kryptonite for carbon boats) is worth it.
(OK Boomer (first and last time I’ll use that, but it does seem the ‘lighter’ yak market seems to be the ‘older’ of us) )
On that beginners boat thing… I think it is misleading. For ex the NDK Romany was designed specifically to be a boat for people to learn in. It is the ultimate beginners boat.
But very few people who have a Romany in decent working order, like me, will let it go precisely because it was such a successful “beginners boat”. .Yeah, she is a good baby sitter when things get messy because of having a lot of head room for the paddler to make mistakes before she’ll capsize.
BUT - it is hard to find a better boat on the planet for all the advanced skills. Rolling, all the wet work, self-rescue, lots of maneuverability in tight spots… the basic Romany hull was tweaked to be a great boat in surf. The one place this hull does anything but excel is for speed. But most people who want to race don’t plan on stopping to do a little wet work on the way.
You can find boats that will do a lot of these things and also be more willing to give you an opportunity to swim than the Romany. And if someone needs that to become an advanced paddler I guess. But everyone I know who has become a very good paddler gets there with a boat that enables advanced skills, without slapping them for every little error while learning.
The Jackson boats in the whitewater realm were a similar break thru. Like the old school beginner boats they were very kind to beginning paddlers in being super easy to roll and generally well behaved in current. No catchy sterns etc. But Jackson put boat designs on the water that did all of that while being much better at enabling tight manuvers in current and eddies than the old school boats. So a newer paddler had both head room for errors while learning and a boat that would do it all as their skills improved.
If you’d like to go to a lighter Tempest I know of a few FG Tenpest 179 PRO used boats for sale as the paddlers are getting new P&H Cetus’ shortly. Drop me a line for details on those and I’ll put you in touch with the owners.
There’s likely a trip to Minn. this winter for me if that helps in the logistics.
You may want to try the NDK Sportif (15 ft?) or Dagger Stratos (14.5 ft) if you want a performance rotomold/plastic kayak for small streams and rocks. Both are good on big waters too.
PS - I’ll be getting a Stratos b4 next summer for small streams, surfing, and rock gardens (if I can find any)
Cetus gets my vote, biased it may be. The Stellar LV behaves much like the Cetus. The standard Intrepid I found fast but more bobbly in its primary’ stability.
