hmm…
Well that answers that question!
2003’s aren’t any better
A friend of mine has one with the coaming set so deep that he can’t get his spray skirt under it in the back, another common problem. The new “improved” foredeck-mounted rope skeg control is a kludgey disaster. Same ol’, same ol’.
IIRC, diolene is the same as Dynel…
…or at least very similar. It’s a polyester fabric that’s extremely abrasion resistant and very strong. Honestly, I’m not exactly sure what it adds to a layup, but I expect that it’s mainly tensile strength and puncture resistance. It tends to absorb a lot of resin and swell unless it’s compressed (vacuum bagged), which would make the layup heavier, thicker and stiffer. However, unlike chopped strand matt, it also adds significant strength.
Flexibility in a composite layup can be very beneficial, to a point. A flexible layup absorbs impacts better and distributes impact energy over a larger area. As long as it doesn’t cause an oil canning issue, flexibility is good.
If you want to stiffen a layup, the most effective way to do so is with a foam core. It adds a lot of stiffness with only a minute weight increase. Lincoln and a handful of other companies do this. The cheap way to do it is the NDK method; use crappy chopped strand matt and a lot of extra resin. Who cares if it adds 10 pounds to the boat?
Gelcoat is not especially flexible, but it’s also not a structural component of a hull, so minor cracking is not a serious issue. The problem with Brit boats and spider cracks is due to mainly to the fact that they glop a lot of the stuff into their molds. The thicker it is, the more likely it is to crack when flexed. If it’s applied thin, it will flex quite a bit without cracking.
Some companies…
– Last Updated: Apr-06-04 7:52 AM EST –
...notably Walden, use a solid stainless wire in lieu of a braided cable. The .080" wire is still flexible enough to bend as required, but it's more efficient at pushing a skeg blade than a braided cable. Cables are designed to operate in tension, not compression, hence the problems with kinking.
Substitute?
Anyone ever tried substituting the Walden stainless steel cable for wire. I kinked the keg cable on my Quest this winter when the mechanism iced up. After rebending, it works well enough for flat water exercise paddling, but I wouldn’t want to take it any where I had to depend on the skeg. Haven’t been able despite 2 emails to get an answer from P&H regarding replacement cable. Other options appreciated.
standard
sailboat standing rigging cable works. I forget the size right now. I’ll check when I get to work.
funny thing is the US cable is twisted right and the English cable, left. Like driving in England, it’s sorta backwards!
Brian is right, the twisted stuff ain’t very well suited to push/ pull application. solid wire is better for push/ pull but kinks too.
there is a company that uses medical industry wire that is virtually kink proof. very $$$ tho.
steve
NDK QC
BNystrom -
Nigel’s new quality program didn’t go into effect until August 1, 2003. Perhaps your friend’s boat was constructed prior to that date. I’ll be interested to hear how Wilsonj’s wife’s Explorer LV turns out. It was built over this winter. The problem with the rear coaming being set too far into the deck has been a common one, but can be remedied by heating up the coaming with a heat gun and bending the coaming upwards. Most of the dealers will do this, as they’ve had prior experience with this procedure.
Front Rope Skeg
On an additional note, both my Explorer and Greenlander Pro have the front rope skeg. I’ve used both the front and rear rope skeg and I actually prefer the front rope setup. It’s easier to trim than the rear rope skeg (I have marked the rope with a permanent marker for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full), it does not bother my knee like the cable assembly, and I find it works relatively smoothly. To each his own I guess.
polyester cloth
I’m just going from the description I read somewhere that Diolene is polyester cloth. There must be a bunch of different kinds of weaves of polyester, polypropelene and other cloths. From the whitewater builders book polyester is described as a poor mans kevlar. It’s NOT stronger than e-glass. It can be “worked” without breaking but it’s not that you could get a strand of polyester of X dimensions and e-glass of X dimensions and there would be an appreciable difference in tensile strength. It certainly isn’t as stiff as e-glass. So for a hull where flexing will occur if you take out some glass and put in some polyester you’ll have a more flexible hull but it won’t break like lighter glass would, but if there’s a thick gel coat on a flexible panel the gel coat wouldn’t like it. Wenonha uses a weave that’s got glass and polyester woven together. I wonder if the British boats go that far or just use a layer of polyester cloth.
I’ve seen “dynel” that JRSweet sells, and Dynel that Defender sells and they don’t look the same. One looks like course cotton sheet and the other like thic cheese cloth with wide low count weave.
Seems to me that trying to make a light construction for lower cost by using diolene is two steps forward and one step back given the loss of rigidity. If you eliminate gel coat or apply a little extra labor to putting glass only where needed you’d get the same weight loss without losing total strength.
Otherwise judicious use of s-glass would give you rigidity AND workability a little like Diolene.
NDK QC
My wife’s Explorer LV may not be a good gauge of the quality control program. It was one of the first three of a new layup and considered a sort of prototype.
Also, Tom Bergh (MIKCo) is taking additional time with the boat after it arrives and before we see it. My wife already emailed Tom about the coaming - so, I would guess that any issues will probably be taken care of before we see the boat.
nj:
How do you like your GP? I have a standard Greenlander and like it so far. When I bought it though, I struggled with the decision as there was also a good deal on a GP. Looks like it has a bit more room underdeck.
medical industry wire
I’d be interested in this as kinks are a PITA though not that difficult to service, given the right wire and tools. Reference? TIA, John
Greenlander Pro
Olle,
I just recently picked up my Pro, so most of my experience with it has been through extensive demo sessions. It does have a little more room under the deck than the Greenlander. However, the Greenlander will hold you in a lot better with its circular cockpit. I’ve found the Pro to be very fast (compared to my Explorer), tracks well in beam winds and edges beautifully. My only two complaints are limited footroom (my size 11s just barely make it) and a tendency to shift from one chine to the other when unloaded. I’ll post a more full report in the review section when I’ve had more time in the boat.
Cheers.
Me too -
I’d be interested in it too, sounds like it might be a one time fix. I believe that the cable in my Explorer is 3/32" 1x19 strand stainless, but I’ll find out this weekend when I get some more. The diameter size of the cable is not the same as the o.d. (like 1/2" pipe which is 7/8" diameter).
thanks
Sounds a lot like my greenlander. Also has the tendency to rock on the chines when empty. I tried placing some ballast and it helps a bit. I was a little surprised at how well this boat handles the rough water, but given NDK’s reputation in this regard I shouldn’t have been.
The ocean cockpit took some getting used to, nowhere to stretch the legs, but now that I’m used to it no worries.
Thanks.
You’re correct…
…he got his boat earlier in the year. I agree that it will be interesting to see if all this talk about improved Q/C is for real or just lip service.
BTW, I heard an unsubstantiated rumor last weekend that NDK has filed for bankruptcy, but I doubt that it’s true and don’t know how to verify it.
Thanks to Nystrom and Lee G
info on Diolene!
wishful thinking?
Brian,
Are you sure that the NDK bankruptcy rumor is not just your wishful thinking or fantasy;)
Actually, the rumor is true
Apparently, NDK did file for bankruptcy. They’re not out of business, but they apparently needed protection from creditors. This is getting pretty interesting!
BTW, I don’t wish Nigel or his company would fail; I simply wish that they would build better products. It would be nice if the construction quality equalled the design quality.
Brian
is there a newspaper link you can post that shows where this info came from. It’s not that I don’t believe you, it’s that I googled NDK bankruptcy UK and got nada.