Valley Quality
It’s been my experience that the finish quality on Valley kayaks has generally been excellent. I owned one several years ago and the finish was flawless. I have seen a very small amount Valley boats with some quality control issues in recent years but it has been the exception far more than the rule.
I hope what was previously said about Valley now glueing in their bulkheads instead of glassing is only true for their Rapier models. If this is true for their entire kayak line then I would be extremely disappointed.
COOL!
Another LV has just been ordered for S.E. FL.
It should be coming in with yours…
I’ve taken mine camping twice now and it has worked out much better than I expected. I was out on Cape Romano last week.
Loving mine… GH
Sounds right
– Last Updated: Apr-15-07 12:14 PM EST –
The most recently made Necky boat I've seen up close, a rotomolded Elaho that was purchased over this last winter, seems to be well-made. I prefer the really aggressive thigh braces that are in the second-year DS one we have, but that's nothing about the quality of the boat. And losing some of the rocker seems to have happened without losing its easy rolling quality. Judging from the paddler's success with it in learning to roll, it still seems to be a mor3e forgiving rolling boat than most other sea kayaks (and any planing hull WW boat I've been in).
Sometimes I wonder about expectations. Anyone who owns a sailboat or a motor boat expects to have to spend each spring inspecting the hull and doing some reconditioning. Shouldn't be all that different with a kayak. My NDK boat is a "good" one, and so has taken less rigorous care than some others. But I still expect that it'll be off to someone to do a really good job on refurbishing the gel coat and putting in a keel strip after this coming season. And for soemthing that you sepnd many, many hours in, it's a fair trade.
Using a contractor
>>>My understanding is that when they went to infusion they used a contractor.
This is true. I believe it was an aerospace company, but can’t recall the exact company. I used to have a bunch of pictures from the factory that they were being infused in, but I have since lost them moving from computer to computer.
I had a carbon infused Chatham 16 on order that first year, but ended up having to cancel it after quitting the place I was working. Wish I would have hung around until the boat showed up. I beat I could have beat the crap out of that boat and it’d still be going strong.
Foam bulkheads
It came up a few weeks ago here on p.net:
orton1966 writes:
“I suppose to me there is something that just seems “right” about using the same material for bulkheads as we use for the shell of the kayak, that’s why we use glass on glass boats Kevlar on Kevlar boats and Polyethylene on Polyethylene boats. The only exceptions for us are foam on the Rapier racing boats because of the weight priority and foam on the Aquanaut club where the cost saving allows us to offer this at a very attractive price point.”
The thread:
http://www.paddling.net/message/showThread.html?fid=advice&tid=635052#635396
Necky composite quality
When our friend got her Chatham 18 it made my Aquanaut look like it was made by adolescents and Celia’s Explorer look like it was made by drunk Welshmen.
When talking with Tom Bergh, he noted that Necky layups are the best. As some of you know, Tom paddles an Explorer and sells Valley and NDK boats.
All that being said, my 2004 Aquanaut is beautifuly made, though I wish it was any near as light as my friend’s Chatham 18 (my 'naut is a ProLite layup, friend’s Chatham is standard layup) or another friend’s 2006 Aquanaut.
Drunk Welshmen
That is probably an exactly correct description… 
What some may not know
In these companies you have paddlers who strive to share their love of paddling. Most know each other and are friends. Information gets shared. All strive to make a good product, and I have yet to meet someone from any of the paddling companies that I did not like.
It’s an industry full of good people who want us to enjoy the water. In the end it doesn’t matter what logo is on your boat.
I agrree Salty
I asked a simple question based on curiosity. Are Valley glass boats VB.I Don’t really care what the rest of the industry is doing as I’m quite sure they’re getting on just fine. Infusion, Vb, or whatever, doesn’t really matter. They all make good boats. The point really boils down to pick a boat and paddle it. Some just happen to paddle better than others. so paddle it.
Rapier have glued foam
Rapiers have glued foam, glass and kevlar boats have glass or kevlar bulkheads glassed in place
Thanks Peter!
I would have been surprised if you had started glueing in the glass and kevlar bulkheads. Please don’t ever stop glassing them in.
I understand why you use glued in foam bulkheads on the Rapier models. It just makes sense from a production and weight standpoint.
Keep up the great work!
am not sure about build methods
I have a stock diolen 2006 Q with the overall fine workmanship and attention to detail is expected from and synonymous with Valley. The lay-up of this particular boat is sufficient but much lighter than other models’ hulls I have seen. Both the deck and hull are much less rigid than other models’ of the same 2006 vintage. The grayish hull has a very smooth and shiny gloss with the red deck being less so.
The mat inside the hull has a uniform texture and no excess resin is visible. The bulkheads are all equally sealed with no puddles of excess resin.
I had an ‘04 H2O that was a tank but suffered frequent gelcoat cracks from being too thick and stiff. The Q’s is more resilient and so far has none.
I did email Valley twice with my hull number to inquire if vacuum technology was used, but no response to date.
So Peter…
…are the glass boats vacuum bagged? Thanks.
Valley Lay-Up Concerns
Have a friend who have a kayak repair buisness. He is trying to rebuild a 2006 Valley Avocet that was ran over in the rear quarter. He was very disappointed with the construction. In this area there was only one layer of coarse glass cloth with large amounts of a white fill material. It was not gelcoat but a chalk like material. Not conducive to strength, but just added weight. Many of you would be suprised of what the “real construction” of some high end kayaks are really like when they are opened up!
very surprised
I am very surprised by the description you are giving about the construction of your kayak. Firstly at no point is the hull less than three layers thick and the deck less than two. There is a light grey filler used in the last three inches (or so) of the nose and tail, this is a low density filler used to allow us to drill through the end to place the toggle rope, the reason we use this filler rather than the end fill of resin used by some other manufacturers is its reduced density and the lower likelihood of heat distortion whilst curing. I would welcome any pictures you have of anything your repair-guy thinks looks untoward.
On the subject of constructions Standard diolen boats are still hand-laminated, although with a revised construction featuring more cloth layers and the minimum of mat to inter-bond these layers and to provide good adhesion to the gel coat. I have no doubt that this construction we are currently using is more than equal to any standard construction glass or diolen kayak currently moulded in the UK. Whilst our Pro and ultra Kevlar models are the only sea kayaks currently being vacuum infused in the UK. These are all cloth hull constructions moulded using vinylester resin. Not that it matters what others are doing but to the best of my knowledge we are the only UK Company going to these lengths
Hi Peter, Have you guys considered
Stitched cloths w/ mat ?
WAY, Stronger, lighter and faster to build on the hand lay up stuff.
Ex. Hexcel DBM 1708 or DBM 1208
Equivalent stuff available from other weavers.
P.S. The lightest (single mold) components come from proper vacuum bagging … infusion just cannot get there … close but ( good/infusion ) looks counts alot for EZ retail sales too.
Putting a bag directly over roving is NOT proper bagging.
not at all
five yrs ago a friends P&H Sirius dropped a foot to the curb with a 1/2" chunk of gel coat popping off the stern with air gap inside. Never kept her from having fun.
I got a first year production Chatham18 two three yrs ago where the gel coat could pop off like a zipper opening up. Saw a composite Chatham17 from a yr ago that was missing cloth on one side of the cockpit(you could shine more light through it and it was noticabley more flexible.
15yrs ago I practiced pf. rescues with my Express and opened up a 2’ crack along the sheer edge of the deck because the seam tape on that side ended in the middle of the curve creating a stress riser.
Little quirks all around.
Just out of curiosity
Who lays up the best boats?
Best for What?
Seems as if there is a question to be answered first before an opinion on “best” could be given.
what they said
pretty much there’s no free lunch. If you want worry free consumer product then you get something that is marketed to include folks with no understanding of the craft. If you want super light it’ll be expensive and somewhat delicate, if you want super durable it’ll be heavy, etc. If you want a design that’s marketed by and for skilled enthusiasts it’ll be a VERY SMALL market with some dificulty to try one out or it’s a design that appeals to a small group of people.
Just because folks can quibble about the various details of design and construction doesn’t mean there’s something inherently bad about a boat or company…although some bone head details on a $3000 recreational item can piss one off.