Valley layups

Does Valley vacuum bagging their Diolen boats?


– Last Updated: Apr-19-07 12:25 PM EST –

At least that is the answer Peter Orton gave here last year. Only the Pro-Kev and Ultra-Kev lay-up options are vacuumed bagged according to the Valley website.

P.S. I am not sure I understand the following "Concur" posting by dpcdivr. I did not make any comments in regard to the quality of Valley's lay-up. The ones I have seen have been excellent.

The quality of the lay-up in the most recent Valley boat I saw (a new Q-boat) was quite unimpressive, compared to my Necky Chatham 18. Lots of excessive resin and sloppy end terminations, most notably on the foredeck underside and the front bulkhead. This equates to weight without strength.

Not good.
I thought they were infusing carbon/kevlar and vacuum bagging glass. Thats to bad.

we received a shipment of 8 boats from Valley recently and the quality of the boats is absolutely outstanding on each and every lay-up.

if anyone has something to work on with QC, it is Necky. lay-ups with big waves in the cloth, poorly done seams, and that is not even talking about their plastic boats and the disaster that they are from a QC/final finishing point of view.

i would certainly not judge all Valley boats final QC or builds based on 1 boat you may have seen, but i can certainly make an all-encompassing statement on Necky QC based on repeated problems that don’t go away over time.

something something production deadlines to be met something something…

Makes me feel better…
…as I just ordered a Valley boat. Still can’t get an answer form Valley if they VB their glass boats.

Could be because …
…it’s a weekend in England too.

Just call the dealer and ask them.

no they do not
Valley does not vacuum bag their glass boats unless you request it. It’s not a big deal as their boats have probably the best layups I’ve seen and in the last year shed several pounds by tweaking techniques. Eventually they want to bag all boats but it adds too much time to the building process do they are only bagging the higher end models.

I know someone who requested a vacuum bagged Aquanaut and it took a full year for the factory to build it and deliver to the States. Any special requests will really slow down delivery.

vacum bagging
I’am pretty sure valley bags all there

fiberglass boats. All the 2006 & up are lighter

& look quite good. Possibly that Q-boat was a

left over 2005.

Regarding Necky…

– Last Updated: Apr-14-07 8:17 PM EST –

All I can say is that I own 7 of their boats, both advanced composite, and polymer, and each is nothing short of outstanding. Not dissing Valley, simply commenting upon the most recent example I saw (which also had an unacceptable, large blem in the hull near the bow). Not being a dealer, I am merely providing unbiased comments based upon what I know to be true.

I own both Valley and Necky boats
the quality is far superior on the valley boats by far. No comparison.

Thanks for the info
I didn’t custom order anything as I was shooting for the June container.

Necky Quality
Has something happened at Necky? The quality of our friend’s glass Chatham 18 that she got I think three years ago now was outstanding. We were quite impressed by the finish and the care that we saw in the boat.

As to Valley - my husband’s Aquanaut from a few years ago is quite good quality - just the usual hash marks showing from where they cut the boat to fit in the coaming that Valley and NDK have never bothered to cover up nicely. It seems that Valley had a real dip in QC a couple of years ago - we know someone who got a glass boat from that time period and had to return it - but I had thought they had gotten it under control. As I recall there was a change in management etc about then.

Don’t get Necky at all - unless… have they relocated the manufacture of their composite boats? There were severe QC issues when they moved the manufacture of their rotomolded boats from Canada to the US. Seams that opened up and similarly bad stuff, and even the good ones were considerably sloppier and more amateur looking than the ones from Canada. We know because we went from a borrowed demo Elaho that had been made in Canada to a new one from the US. The one from the US was OK, but the Canadan-made boat was miles better done in its finish.

I insist, they do not
The reason why the new valley boats are lighter is because they switched to an ABS seat instead of a hung glass one and are now gluing instead of glassing in their bulkheads. That is saving about 4 pounds over previous boats. Some of their literature states that they vacuum bag their glass boats but I can tell you that they do not. I know the Valley layup looks good. That’s Valley quality for you.

Where are dealers saying they are?
3 valley dealers I’ve talked to all mentioned

that 2006 & up boats are bagged. If there not

bagging standard glass boats are the dealers

misinformed, or know & trying to pass off they

they are?

So which one did you order?
Inquiring minds want to know…

Valley intended to
It was announced with the 2006 line that they were going to vacuum bag all their boats, but then because of production time, limited it to their higher end boats.

Vacuum bagging and vacuum infusing are two terms that are traded too frequently. Valley and many other high end builders are vacuum infusing rather than vacuum bagging, but that is a minor detail.

My info is from GRO, the US distributor of Valley.

I can offer some info here
One of my best friends works at Necky and has for years. Neckar hired him away from his Olympic Team coaching job. I ran an outdoor program for ten years and had Necky, NDK, Valley products.

To Celia’s point about poly boats. During the transition there was a dip in quality. The current watercraft director came in and shut everything down and re-built it. New production management etc. Poly boats now are excellent.

Composite Necky’s of old were hand laid and very functional. Held up well for me, but were not perfect. Neither were the other brands.

Current Necky composites are built at Old Town. My understanding is that when they went to infusion they used a contractor. Earlier boats had some issues with gel-coat, seam, etc., so while most were good , some had nagging leak issues. I own one of those in my fleet…a CH16 Carbon. The boat has seen rediculous abuse and other than looking beat up is the toughest lay-up I’ve owned…no exception.

Last summer I had the opportunity to paddle with my friend in one of the new boats infused at Old Town. It was beatifully finished and had no problems I could find. I was then asked to try and break it…I was unsuccessful. The seam BTW is a tongue and groove bond that is also fully taped and glassed inside. I couldn’t break it.

So, as I read the shots above at Necky I have to believe these were some of the “transitional composite” boats. I applaud them for going for it with infusion. Learning a new process and dialing everything in isn’t so easy…I think they are there from what I’ve seen.

Valley: Always a solid kayak, as were NDK’s. In my program the NDK’s had the most cosmetic flaws and got the most “refreshing” work every couple of years for minor fracturing etc. But, the kayaks were great overall. My understanding is that Valley was going the infusion route. I hope that’s true, as I fully believe it produces a lighter tougher boat. But they may have encountered some snags along the way.

I have never owned a perfect kayak, nor a terrible one. These are all good companies that strive to put out great product. All my old friends at Necky are still there today. People also get passionate about brands and re-inforce their biases. Good day all

Nordkapp lv
I went up to Sweetwater almost hoping I wouldn’t like it. It took about a week to peel the grin off my face.

The voice of reason