Just picked this out of something Peter Orton posted on another thread
“We recently did a deal with Mike Nelson of North Shore, whilst North Shore keeps it own identity, a separate plant in the North East and design input from Mike Nelson, We are taking over marketing, distribution and development of the range, including new RM versions of the Shore Line and Atlantic models.
The updated North Shore Line should start to appear in the US towards the end of 2007 with full availability in 2008”
This certainly fits other things i have heard and represents quite an interesting development. North Shore, although very quiet in recent years, has some very good designs. The Atlantic especially, being very similar in design concept to P&H’s Capella. This could be a very shrewd move, long term for Valley because the “Valley” design philosophy and the “North Shore” design philosophy are quite different. Yet the North Shore and the “P&H” styles are quite similar.
If the boys do a good job of dragging North Shore back into the paddling public’s focus this could be a real shot across the bows of several other companies.
Interesting to see how it all develops over the coming months
Just picked this out of something Peter Orton posted on another thread
the Valley widens
I don’t know the first thing about business but its got to help NorthShore.
And if my conversions are correct, the North Shore boats offer a slightly snugger fitting keyhole than the one-size-misses-me that Valley has. At least on one of their boats, I think it wsa the Buccanneer. Will be fun to see what this produces.
On The "Edge Of My Seat…"
just waiting to see how this all plays out! It’s like drama for the winter.
Just as I start revamping my old Cally I hear this, hmmm, looks like I’ll need to buy a Feugo for fun
Just spoke to Peter on the phone, Word is that after they do the Atlantic and Shore Line in RM this year they will be doing a RM version of the Buccaneer or Polar for late 2007 early 2008.
This means i proper hard chined Greenland inspired kayak in triple layer RM construction, can’t wait!
no fuego anymore
meat on the bones
John (JB56) is correct in what he says.
To elaborate, we heard through the grapevine that Mike was wrapping up North Shore and was selling his moulds to be produced by an off-shore manufacturer. On digging a little deeper we discovered that this was really an act of frustration following a difficult year or so since Mike and his old business partner had gone their separate ways.
It just felt wrong that what was once a stalwart of British sea kayaking was to disappear. In the early 90’s North Shore was the company that we (at P&H) considered our biggest competitive threat. There boats made some of ours look plain dated, this was the spur that led to the Sirius and then the Capella.
We decided to contact Mike and see how far things had gone, quite far was the truth, the workforce had just been laid off and moulds were all set to go to Easton Europe, he would have had no future say over the direction or future of North Shore and was resigned to be unemployed for the first time in his life. Myself and Jason decided to do something to keep North Shore a British company and Mike in the industry.
It is still early days. We have rented a new unit in the North East and we are employing Mike to revamp the designs to freshen them up ready for production to resume. Meanwhile I’m doing the scaling up on two of the designs ready for North Shore’s new RM versions of the Shore Line (a cracking 16 footer) and Atlantic (its17ft brother). There is a new website commissioned and other aspects of distribution etc. are falling in to place.
It’s not that we didn’t have enough going on anyway but the history of the sport is important to me and it just seemed like the right thing to do keeping names like North Shore and the Shore Line alive and good people like Mike Nelson in the industry
Add the Islander Kayaks in…
Brit designed and owned but manufactured in Sri Lanka. The ones we’ve seen are nicely done with an interesting offset skeg. Jim had a chance to try the one that would be for my size and said it was a really fun, responsive boat. Quaahaag or some such. They should be improving their import situation over the winter.
The next couple of years could be a fun time for driving around to try out boats.
Thank you Peter…
Valley taking over North Shore, in light of the alternatives, is very good news.
We will again be seeing some North Shore boats on this side of the pond.
So, it seems, at this point Brit boat manufacturers are; Valley/North Shore, P&H/Pyranha/Venture, NDK (Sea Kayaking UK), Rockpool, Kirton, and by design/ownership Island.
So is Valley or P&H/Pyranha going to be making the poly boats for NDK?
Why Would You!!!
Here is a question that won’t get answered here, but still worth asking.
Why would a company that specialises in white water products buy a respected sea kayak company and then let/encourage the hart and sole of that company to leave?
For those who haven’t guessed I mean Pyranha buying P&H and allowing Peter to escape. I’ve been lucky enough to have had several conversations with Peter and when this subject comes up he is always diplomatic, possibly I’m not buying him enough to drink! Joking aside he did tell me it wasn’t about money and that at the time he didn’t really want to leave. Maybe I’m just nosey but this guy is obviously talented, obviously passionate about the sport, you’d have thought Pyranha would have had him slapped in the heaviest pair of golden handcuffs, on the board of directors or whatever was needed to have him staying for the long term and pushing the company forward.
Anyway, I know Peter can’t or won’t spill the beans here, and yes I guess it has been good for Valley and possibly the British kayaks industry in general, it is just one of those WHY!! Questions that will probably remain as speculation
I’m very glad…
No slight on P&H or Pyranha, however I care more about Valley than the Ps. Even though we own a Vela and may soon own an Inazone.
Frank Goodman was ready to retire, it is very fortunate that Peter was available and willing to step in.
After all "There’s nothing like a Valley.’
Thanks for the kind words.
On the subject of NDK's RM project we have made the offer to help them should they need it.
Difference in design concept
JB or others; would you mind expounding a bit, for us relative beginners, on the difference between the design concept of North Shore or P&H, and Valley?
I guess what I meant is things like the Plan form. Valley kayaks tend to be slightly fish form (widest point forward of centre) whilst P&H and North Shore tend to be more neutral (widest point in the middle) or even very slightly Swede form (widest point rear of centre)
Deck profile Valley tends to be slightly peaked whilst North Shore and P&H are more a constant curve.
Valley tends to run more rocker, especially at the stern
There are all sorts of other little design cues look at the keel line on a P&H kayak and the line is quite crisp i.e. quite a small radius from one flat of the other down the V, whilst Valley tends to use a larger radius. Both North Shore and P&H decks feature distinct styling lines, valley decks are plain.
I think what I was getting at was many paddles, if presented with a pile of models from all three, all unlabelled, would have no problem putting all the Valley ones together but more problem distinguishing the other two from each other.
For the record I would describe NDK as more like P&H in plan, with deck and detail more like Valley
Valley and NDK
All Valley and NDK sea kayak hulls derive from the Anas Acuta. Though there are many variations, there is obvious kinship among all Valley and NDK sea kayaks.
Though it seems possible to spot/differentiate a Valley boat from other Brit boats most of the time by its profile.
I’ve noticed at BCU gatherings in the States that Valley and NDK boats seem to account for 90% of all boats present.
beg to differ
Whilst Valley did start with the Anas and therefore its fair to say this influenced all future designs it is commonly accepted that the Romany’s mid section is based on, of all things, a dagger free fall.
Some would argue that as Nigel had arranged to manufacture the Pin Tail for use in this centre this was an influence. But remember the Romany was a 16ft boat against the Pin Tail at 17 and a half plus. Probaby the Shore Line which was the hot 16 footer of the time was more an influence.
Aled and Nigel are the once to ask about NDK though
Aled did state
The common wisdom seemed to be that Nigel borrowed an Anas mold from Goodman when embarking on the Romany. However, Aled Williams conveyed (I think in a thread here) that it was a Pintail mold that they started with to design the Romany. He noted the changes and modifications they made to the Pintail in developing the Romany.
Of course, a Pintail is a rounded chine Anas.
Thanks for taking my request seriously
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed your reply, and the discussion that is ensuing.
comings together and wishes
If I could see a marriage of companies it would be Rockpool and Valley simply because I want a Rockpool Underground and know if Valley is involved it will be polished. My other dream merger would be Valley and Prijon so I could get a QUALITY Brit boat with the small hatch in front of the cockpit…selfish wants I admit.