I don't know how many boats are around with Kajak Sports hatches that are over 6 years? Anyone posting here? I got around 10 years before my VCPs starting showing cracks. I really wonder if the Kajaks are going to outlast the VCP's? Since they are rubber they will be affected by UV. I have one Kajak sport boat but it's only a few years old. Personally, I like the VCPs better for putting them on and off. But on Tom's Kayak shop ...
you can see that Wilderness and others have rubber type hatch lids for half the price of VCP and Kajak. It's like selling oil, if they can get the price, they will.
responsiveness altho this was in a response post that got removed, the big Outdoor Retailer Expo in Utah is very recently ended. A lot of reps were there. Expect some lag time in correspondence: they have all the inquiries that landed while they were en route to the show plus they have a lot of people to reach for future commits & orders.
BTW I’m following this topic w. impartiality as neither of my seakayaks have rubber hatches.
VCP hatch covers I just got a 2001 fiberglass Avocet that had gotten very little use. It has the original hatch covers and they look brand new, as does the entire boat :>. I’m not sure whether they were ever treated with Formula 303. Though I got a great deal, now I have potential frequent hatch replacements to worry about. Then again, I could buy a load of VCP hatch covers with the money I saved getting the boat second hand!
Ten years for mine Jay,I bought a new Boreal Ellesmere in 1999 equipped with Kajaksport hatches and they are still like new.
I bought a used Pintail in 2002 and replaced the cracked hatch covers then.The replacements are still servicable but are starting to look pretty old and faded.
Both boats are stored in a dark garage and get 303’ed
occasionally but are used a lot in the warmer months and less often in the winter. Both boats are reliably
waterproof at this time so I’ve had better luck than most with VCP but I’m in a colder climate…that seems to be the key.
I prefer the Kajaksport hatches because of their slightly larger size as I camp out of my boats frequently.
Good to hear That’s good news and a bit surprising. Maybe the Kajak’s will prove to be the better product? Don’t drop it in the water. My Kajak lids are tethered.
13 years My VCP ten incher was all cracked and crumbly after 13 years, though I suspect it was still watertight.
The kayak was stored outside under a deck and always upside down. I think the year it spent on top of my van in Florida in 2007 rapidly accelerated the disintegration process because I don’t recall it being in such bad shape when I left for Florida.
I, too, found the deterioration somewhat puzzling, since I have a lot of other rubber things that have lasted outdoors for longer periods.
Yeah, we get your drift… … and it’s VERY counterproductive and condescending. I seriously hope you don’t work in any aspect customer service.
Real folks have real issues with this product. I’m happy many can live with the service life they’re getting, but that doesn’t make it so for the rest, or make it inconsequential or trivial for them, or in ANY way acceptable.
You don’t care? So what? Does that mean Valley shouldn’t care? At some point even Valley’s cheerleaders begin to hurt them on this issue. Keep it up.
What I find the most curious and would most like to understand is why some of us get many years of use from our Valley hatch covers with no observable deterioration while others get only very short term use before the covers decay.
I agree it would be helpful if Valley responded to the OP's inquiries. I am a Valley fan and have had very good response from Peter Orton over a span of a few years. I don't think I am dismissing someone else's issues by noting I have been fortunate. I do tend to allow a lot of latitude from small companies. Heck, after pretty good exchange with QCC (including both email and phone), they stopped responding - and QCC is often given as the exemplar of customer service. I was trying to buy some RDFs and assume the very small staff was overwhelmed with bigger issues.
I missed if the OP spoke with the folk from whom he acquired the boat with the unsatisfactory hatch covers?
I own three Valley boats, the Kapp is 1998, the Naut is 2003, the Naut LV RM is 2007. All covers are original and look/work fine. I prefer their hatches to my P&H (kajaksport)and Eddyline (their own). I would be willing to put up with slightly less life as a trade off for performance. What you guys down south are experiencing is unacceptable, however, you might want to consider it a trade off for living in such a lovely climate:). Regardless of the cause or frequency, any good company would take their customers concerns seriously and respond to them with a timely and thoughtful reply. This does not mean that they should necessarily open their wallet, but an angry customer can do alot of damage, particularly in the digital age. I would hope that their engineering curiousity would drive them to discover the cause of the customer complaint. Bill
I think that part of the problem with the hatch covers may have something to do with the amount of their use. Capt Ken lives in Florida and ia an AVID paddler. He paddles at least 4 times a week all year round in the Fl sun. I have been paddling several years,take care of my boats and just replaced the 2nd set of hatch covers. They just don’t last,even with 303. I agree with Ken that something should be done. Just my $.02
Greyak, I love how just about every single thread you touch seems to turn into a personal debate with somebody.
While most posters try to remain neutral and comment with generalizations without singling out anybody personally, you seem to be able to do just the opposite.
You might wish that I don’t work in customer service but I wonder how many companies would honor a warranty of 5 years? if you are lucky you can get 12 months.
Not saying that Valley’s hatch covers might not have a problem (mine certainly did not) and if a minority appears to have a problem (could possibly be a bad batch?) I don’t see how replacing said covers is such a drama.
I would hate to be the dealer that sold you your car…
And how are we going with those rudder lines?
Admittedly if one does not paddle often a ruddered kayak chances are those cables would be in good conditions (unlike those allegedly INFERIOR Valley hatch covers)…
Cheer up dude and keep your comments generic and don’t target anybody specifically just because you LOVE an argument.
Don’t tell me that I am the first one to actually point this out to you either…
I’ve seen this happen in the NE as well I have a 2004 bought as a demo in 2006 - no problems. Friend has a 2006 that has less overall use and has been stored in a dark garage. His small round cover dry rotted. He also has a mid to late 1990s boat with Valley hatches which has had much more use over the years. Stored in the same location as the 2006, yet it’s original covers are still fine.
Another friend picked up a brand new boat this spring (it was leftover stock from last year). I noticed one of his hatch covers already had dry rot starting. Since he had owned the boat less than a week at the time I suggested he contact the dealer to get a new hatch cover.
Maybe Valley had some bad runs, or the formula has changed and is no longer as durable, or possibly these boats are being stored near a source of ozone or some other gas. I know ozone will affect drysuit latex gaskets, maybe it also eats Valley hatch covers.
Another friend picked up a brand new… If you are referring to Martin’s boat, the hatch cover was much older than the boat. It had the old VCP logo which predates any of my Valley boats and I would guess indicates the the hatch cover was at least 10 years old.
Keeping posts on “general” point The point of this and the prior thread were about a fairly specific problem, which you admit you aren’t having - yet you feel a need to post comments that imply those who do (actually ALL do, just at varying rates) are just whiners or something.
Now YOU want to get off track about making this personal? I only walked in a door YOU opened.
You might note that I’ve had more than one set of covers do this, and yet never started a thread about this on any four cover replacements. I just paid up like everyone else.
If I were replacing these things every 6 years, or even 4, OK maybe not such a big deal. Less that two years life, on two sets now, on a rarely used and shade stored kayak? Do you REALLY think that’s OK? Besides the cost, would you trust them on the water (on your wife/girlfriend/child’s kayak) if this had been YOUR experience? It’s not like they give a lot of warning either.
Only now that I know it’s not just me - and my experience with fast failures closely matches others’ - am I adding my 2¢. Nothing more, nothing less. I simply want discussion/awareness/answers and hope to find either a distinct cause/solution for warm water paddlers or a encourage a better product for all). Valley is very welcome to participate, and may have valid reasons for failing to answer emails or chime in, but that leaves us on our own to discuss and speculate…
Personal? Well, it does piss me off when folks take your attitude and try to turn it back on us as if we’re simply problem customers (and then have the further nerve to get uppity when called out on it!).
In 8 years or so I’ve had a grand total of three product related issues that I posted on or otherwise too action about: SmarTrack foot braces breaking (a known design flaw at time mine failed, and one that that has since been corrected - and that product sold off by SealLine), I asked QCC for some skeg parts (was more than willing to buy them), and now these fast rotting Valley hatch covers (which I’ve not asked for replacements or any other recompense for, just want answers as already stated. Over the same time DIY has ALWAYS been my first course of action whenver possible. I’ve fixed/adjusted/altered/replaced/modified more things for self and others than I can think of (including favors for kayak companies to their customers at no benefit to me), and even shifted to selling more paddlesports items than I buy and I look at things from both sides of the transaction.
Yeah, I’m a real high maintenance type. Whatever.
I am also a Product Designer with a degree in Industrial Design, so I likely have some different level of understanding and expectations regarding product design/materials/processes/ and the related tradeoffs than many of my fellow paddlers. On that level maybe I am just a bit more demanding (though I’d say more deeply curious) regarding this sort of thing. I certainly won’t apologize for that.
Side note on those RDFs May have shared this with you before (almost certainly if you mentioned this on Pnet before), but the fitting QCCs uses are from Vitudden in Sweden:
"Distributor of the
unique Vitudden Deck Fittings
in USA & Canada
Warehouse locations:
Buffalo, NY. USA
and
Burlington, Ontario. Canada
For more information
swedata@cogeco.ca
or
SweData Services
404 Oakwood Drive
Burlington, Ontario
L7N 1X2 Canada
Phone: 905-681-1953
I can understand QCC not wanting to become a parts reseller for several reasons (and may just not be able to), or even identifying the actual components and source, but they could have just said that up front (well, maybe not and still have it sound nice…). I’m sure you’ve already been told to call and not email QCC, and I have to wonder if you ran int a bad timing thing if it was a while back when they’d had a major loss…
That “engineering curiosity” … … is mostly what drives me in this regard, despite how some will read into things.
Something tells me that if I knew the actual composition and production methods the answer would be pretty obvious. Of course I can also understand Valley not divulging that sort of info.
If they had manufacture dates maybe they’d turn out to be 6 years old when purchased (not likely, but I’m open to all possibilities), as shelf life does seem to factor in based on others posts to the earlier thread, but there’s no way to know how old a “new” cover is so that’s moot at this point. Can’t blame old stock, or reseller storage conditions, and if those things mattered we’d see mixed rates all over with not just a more distinct regional/temperature trend.
Personally I’d be content to place the fault on some EU/GB environmental rule and give Valley a pass were it not for their silence. Even a simple “We don’t know.” with even a hint of the aforementioned curiosity/interest would be encouraging. Silence only makes me think maybe they may know all too well (and are just doing the math vs re-engineering yet again, as it seems somewhat of a majority of customers will be OK with that).
That would make sense, except… … mine are on a rarely used shade stored kayak (and kept off in the open hatches). They sees direct sun and saltwater only a few days a year, maybe 8 the first year we had it (and just a few hours an outing, not all day stuff).
I started by emailing them asking if I could buy RDFs from them. After I got an affirmative response. We then exchanged phone calls confirming how they prefer to be paid (credit card by phone not online). Then when I phoned with the final count (a friend wished to go in on the order)and to provide credit card info, I never heard back. I phoned a couple of times after that and emailed as well.
It is no big thing. I just wanted to note that even the companies with the best customer service sometimes have things fall through the cracks.