what dealer said
yes, J. said that they frequently swap boat hatch covers on new boats if original covers are lost, damaged, etc. during all the test paddling going on. She apologized for letting me drive home with a bad cover but felt that it was a cover laying around in the shop for years and not the new one. She promptly sent me a new one but asked that I mail back the old one.
inside treatment
– Last Updated: Jul-30-09 9:30 AM EST –
Sun UV is the obvious enemy of hatch covers and thus most of us might only treat the outside of hatch covers. Perhaps there is nothing that happens to the inside of the covers but I 303 that side as well as the rims, by soaking the entire covers in 303 and letting them stay overnight in a sealed bag.
inside treatment
Maybe that does play a role. Though we don’t 303 our hatch covers all that often, we do both outside and inside…
Interesting
Perhaps the issue is simply heat. Up here, it gets pretty hot at times but not for extended periods. The mildew angle is intriguing. If you have access to a microscope, it should be pretty easy to see if there is mildew growth in the material.
AFAIK, the difference in the new “greener” materials is that they use less VOCs (petrochemical solvents) in the manufacturing process.
Heat does seem key…
… but that would indicate a material that breaks down of it’s own accord via internal chemical process with the average temperature difference only accelerating this.
The slower failing/cooler climate ones seem to fail the same way, which might serve to rule out any significant role mildew might play (and I’m pretty sensitive/allergic to molds/mildews so playing with the crumbling material on the last one as I did would likely have had consequences).
Couple of pics …
of the hatch covers on my Sparrow Hawk when I got it in 2007. I’m told these were in good shape before the boat was stored in the loft of a barn in the NE for two years. Granted they were old, ca. 1994, but I suspect the heat and no 303 is what really did them in. I have a friend with a similar vintage Arctic Hawk that still has original covers, yet on his 2006 Avocet the round hatch has already dry rotted. These boats have been stored side by side.
http://community.webshots.com/album/563538121VAPEPD?start=12
replacements
I’m also in NE and strangely enough the only hatch covers I’ve replaced have been on kayaks that I bought used. One was the day hatch on a very old explorer, and the others were on an Aleut II tandem that was stored outside and was originally used by the Hurricane Island Out Ward Bound program.
The hatches on my Argonaut and my Foster Rowe Shadow are still fine and I have only applied 303 a few times.
inside treatment
Counter indication? I have been told by a paddler/dealer I consider honest and knowledgeable that treating the inside of the rims of the hatches with 303 could make the hatches leak.
Old tale or any truth in this? Any before/after experience?
"…could make the hatches leak."
That’s a new one on me. In my experience, it seems to make the Valley hatches easier to put on and take off, but does not make them leak.
VCP HATCH COVERS
Hi, just my 2 cents on your post. I purchased an AVOCET
RM used several years ago. When I got it the hatches looked
fine. 1 1/2 to 2 years later i noticed there were multiple small cracks in all the rubber hatches; I was shocked as I paid a lot for the used boat. I shelled out almost $200 for new hatches. The original owner stored the boat in his garage, I stored it outside under a deck out of the sun.
I wrote to valley and also got no reply. I later learned the
hatches have a reputation for having a “shelf life”. I do appreciate the quality of Valley kayaks however it is very
expensive to not only pay for the boat but then have to get NEW hatches; that is an unnecessary additional expense!!!1…namaste’, rachel
I have a Northwest Seascape which has a 8" VCP froward hatch, to say that the hatch covers are garbage is a massive understatement. After listening to all the complaints about the questionable quality of these covers I felt forced to chime in. Since the Brits are making fantastic cars, motorcycles and Kayaks as well, it would suggest they had a smattering of knowledge regarding moulding elastomeric products.
.The last hatch cover I bought new crumbled in a matter of days (about 10) after delivery. It wasn’t even out of the bag that it was shipped in.
Being an engineer with quite a few years of product design, material selection and processing, it stuns me that Valley has persisted in using the same tooling, the same processing and the same raw material.
To address the UV degradation, they could just add an UV buffer or stabilizer and to some extent, prolong the covers life span a bit more.
Having said that, it behooves me to suggest there any number of rubber compounds they could use that would last for years. On another note, there are polyurethanes and even silicone rubbers that are heat set and would last longer than the kayak. Yes these raw materials are more expensive and might process differently, but unless, Valley feels it is a great move to keep the profit stream going by making crap and shipping it out, they need to take a look at new elastomeric raw materials and get with it.
I suspect many of them can be processed with Valley’s existing tooling
trade-offs…they are formulated to float. I average 10 to 12 years . AND they seal like few others.
I always buy the Valley ones.
Best Wishes
Roy
@Sumo said:
I have a Northwest Seascape which has a 8" VCP froward hatch, to say that the hatch covers are garbage is a massive understatement. After listening to all the complaints about the questionable quality of these covers I felt forced to chime in. Since the Brits are making fantastic cars, motorcycles and Kayaks as well, it would suggest they had a smattering of knowledge regarding moulding elastomeric products.
.The last hatch cover I bought new crumbled in a matter of days (about 10) after delivery. It wasn’t even out of the bag that it was shipped in.
Being an engineer with quite a few years of product design, material selection and processing, it stuns me that Valley has persisted in using the same tooling, the same processing and the same raw material.
To address the UV degradation, they could just add an UV buffer or stabilizer and to some extent, prolong the covers life span a bit more.
Having said that, it behooves me to suggest there any number of rubber compounds they could use that would last for years. On another note, there are polyurethanes and even silicone rubbers that are heat set and would last longer than the kayak. Yes these raw materials are more expensive and might process differently, but unless, Valley feels it is a great move to keep the profit stream going by making crap and shipping it out, they need to take a look at new elastomeric raw materials and get with it.
I suspect many of them can be processed with Valley’s existing tooling
Hey, based on your experience, do you have any idea what material these ARE made out of?
Mine blew out finally after years of use, and they failed much like my hiking boots of the same age did: spontaneous disintigration. My thought is the mid layer of the hiking boot is the same as this material - namely - molded polyurethane.
According to here,
Molded polyurethane foam soles can be amazingly comfortable but, unlike leather soles, they have a limited shelf life. According to footwear industry consultant Phillip Nutt, the shelf life of a direct-injected polyurethane sole should be in the range of four to five years. He says the material tends to “crumble into a sticky mess” when stored for “periods longer than four years or so.”
Disuse apparently increases the risk that polyurethane soles will degrade–and that probably increases the indignation of consumers whose barely worn shoes disintegrate. If you wear your shoes every day and walk miles in them, you expect the soles to show wear. You don’t expect shoes to be destroyed by months or years of sitting unworn in their box in your closet.
I was hiking in Seattle when my shoes finally blew out (hydrolysis), and the REI guy I shared this with confirmed the failure mode. He recounted folks who’d buy several pairs of their favorite hiking shoe only to find they all rotted in the closet. So is this a same/similar failure mode for the VCP hatches?
It would help us all if you forwarded VCP some material suggestions! 
Why is anyone reviving a severely out of date thread? There ARE quite acceptable replacements for the Valley hatch covers now, from Sealect. And I looked at the site for NW kayaks. I don’t know this brand, but again there are alternatives available if someone has totally horrid luck with the Valley hatch covers.
Newbie’s first post to a zombie thread. Certainly not the first time it has happened.
I can think of a bunch of software solutions buy I doubt the P.com gods will take pity on us and do anything about it.
Well, at least I now know why a closet full of new shoes went bad. I thought it was something I did wrong.
I don’t mind necroposts. Am guessing there’s lots of interesting stuff buried in the archives.
It was nice to learn that Kayaksports hatch covers are well regarded as that’s what’s on my latest boat.
planned obsolescence Like American cars use to be.
Biodegradable…
@Rookie Can’t kill the kayaksport hatch covers, or at least it takes a lot, as long as you 303 them a couple or more times a year. But Kayaksport hatch covers sink like a stone. It is why you see that boats with Kayaksport larger hatch covers often still have a Valley day hatch cover. I will be replacing one set of Valley covers and will go for the more expensive Sealects that float.
You need hooks for the end to clip them to perimeter line, after you have gotten some rope or bungie as apt onto/around the hatch cover. Like here. http://topkayaker.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_19&zenid=omoqjq30kiec07jqrl7j6mp9t0
While each Kayaksport cover does have a tab with a hole at the end for external attachment, each cover is already tethered to the inside of its respective hatch. Don’t all manufacturers tether the hatch covers?