In process for attaching a Wenonah tractor seat on aluminum rails to a Solo Plus vinyl Royalex skin.
Rails go on Velcro, then cam strap down.
recommend adhesive...preferably 'removable' (no chiseling) for Velcro to vinyl.
Two things that come to mind are
contact cement, which I have used to attach Velcro to smooth boat surfaces, or Vynabond. Contact cement application is obvious, just be careful not to let the cement soak into the Velcro plush or hooks.
For Vynabond, you would have to apply a couple of thin precoats to the Velcro backing and let them dry, again avoiding soaking the hooks or plush. Then you would use the usual Vynabond semi-dry contact method to apply the Velcro to the hull.
I suggest you do test trials on a non-obvious part of the hull. Pblanc will come along and give better advice.
There is something going on
with vinyl adhesives, but I don't know what.
For years, my favorite was Vyna Bond, which is actually a brand name and was made by Performix, which was a division of Plastidip. It used to be available in a 12 ounce, screw top can. Apparently, Platidip has discontinued production. You can still find NOS 1 ounce tootpaste-type tubes of Vyna Bond on ebay at an inflated price.
I also used a lot of a vinyl adhesive (labelled Vinyl Adhesive) made by an S.R.H. Industries and sold by Nantahala Outdoor Center. When I was at the NOC Outfitters Store a couple of weeks ago, I was told they had no vinyl adhesive of any type and had not had any for some time. So perhaps production of that variety has been discontinued as well.
I have used Vinyl-Tec 2000 as sold by Northwater which is available in a 100 ml can and I have had good results with it. But Northwater is a Canadian company so you would have to find an American retail dealer that carries it (I haven't been able to) or have it shipped by a Canadian dealer such as Western Canoeing and Kayaking.
Mike Yee, who makes and sells whitewater OC-1 outfitting, recommends HH-66 on his website for bonding vinyl anchors to Royalex:
I just bought a quart of the stuff but I haven't used it yet so I can't say how well it works. If Mike recommends it, I would hope it works well.
For bonding Velcro to Royalex I have used contact cement (DAP Weldwood flammable variety) as ezwater suggests. The bond might not be as strong but it is probably as strong as the bond the Velcro makes to itself. But if you plan to use straps to secure the seat frame to the hull bottom, I assume you are going to use vinyl-backed D rings or other types of anchors such as these daisy chains:
I would use vinyl adhesive for that application.
had some leftover 3M 5300 or 5200
forget which, which my son used to outfit a couple boats, d-rings, saddles, thigh straps. Worked well for a couple years, then pretty much fell apart, sans chisel.
Don't mistake it for toothpaste.
I sure hope …;
you are not planning on attaching this to the sides of the hull !
If you are I hope you only weigh fifty pounds when soaking wet.
Don’t mistake adhesive for toothpaste
I’ve never mistaken any adhesive for toothpaste…
But one early morning while camped on a river, I mistook a tube of Hydorcortisone for toothpaste. Realized my mistake immediately. Rinsed my mouth out quickly with water; then brushed my teeth with toothpaste.
Taste in my mouth was terrible. Rinsed & brushed again. Same problem; terrible taste.
I rinsed with some of every potable liquid I had; orange juice, beer, and Toularmore Dew. Tried different foods; nothing helped. Nasty taste hung on for nearly 30 hours, through multiple toothpaste brushings before it finally started to fade away. Took about 36 hours before I didn’t notice the taste anymore.
Not likely to ever do that again.
Now I always have to read TOOTHPASTE on the tube before I brush, even at home.
My little brother, from bathroom door:
“This toothpaste tastes awful”.
Grandfather, inspecting tube:
“That ain’t no toothpaste, that’s my butt cream!”
cement ? hadn’t thought of CC. I’ll try that with alcohol and MEK rubs. Oak Orchard recommended alcohol with this hull.
There’s 4000 and 5200 on the shelf. 3M demures writing ‘no applicable products available’
I wrote 3M that the idea was this rig is removable for transport and for experiment…I may not like the seat or will adjust for height…possibly an in water adjustor.
There’s a can of 3M 80 on the shelf: probably permanent or longer.
A can of vinyl putty may be in the future.
Also a wondrous can of Permatex spray on gasket adhesive. GRRRRRREAT STUFF ! spray on trans pan gasket surface…add gasket…adjustable goo…then bolt pan to trans. Perfect.
There’s vinyl sheet around for that experiment. Or your hull ?
Vynabond was used for d ringing Bill’s Bags into the Rendezvous. Perfect with MEK rub.
Vyna sells a leather vinyl glue…is the leather vinyl the same as what we were using before the apparent supply stopped ?
There’s a can of LA4123 from NRS for d ringing the Solo for those Bill’s Bags and the tractor seat cam straps. I have a humidity gauge with a Kestrel.
The group saw my MSR dromedary setup on Sea Kayaker ?
The Dromedary Velcro rig is completely functional upside or downside down so a cam strapped and my weight down should hold the seat. A safety strap is evident tho…case I run it into a rock.
Contact cement ? are you for real there ? The 400/52000 holds on a Pelican box without flaming yet seems less structural than what we’re looking for…curing time is endless on the 4000/5200.
Vinyl bonding is, I guess mainly melting one vinyl into the other side that is not Velcro. I don’t know what Vel’s bottom was made from…any guesses ?
So asking for a removable vinyl melt together is not mainstream…hohahaha one would temporary vinyl with Velcro…ok.
vinyl adhesive “melting” vinyl
Vinyl adhesive does not melt vinyl layers together, or if it does, the “meld” is about one molecule thick. That is a lie that has been disseminated like the notion that “penetrating oil” penetrates deeply into wood and strengthens it.
I have peeled off vinyl D ring anchors from Royalex canoes without significant damage to the vinyl D ring patches or the vinyl of the Royalex more times than I can count. I have also used vinyl adhesive to bond vinyl D ring patches to surfaces that contained no vinyl whatsoever, such as composite canoe hulls constructed from vinylester resins.
any experience with the leather vinyl Vynabond product ?
I noticed that Vynabond vinyl adhesive went out as the Permatex all fabric - including vinyl - adhesive appeared at Walmart. The Permatex product does not structurally bond vinyl.
Peeling info, thanks. I try not to peel.
in the galley drawer
of my sailboat, back when I drank alcohol…that’s my story, I’m sticking to it!
If you are referring to Peformix VLP, sold by Plastidip and advertised as a “tear repair coating and adhesive in one, designed to repair small rips, tears, and small holes on most types of vinyl and leather material”, I have no experience with it.
The MSDS shows that it differs greatly from Vyna Bond and it contains a much higher percentage by weight of MEK (80.2%).
Personally, I would be reluctant to use it on Royalex. Both acetone and MEK will dissolve ABS. It is OK to wipe either on Royalex because they both flash off quickly and there is no prolonged exposure. But I have seen MEK-containing vinyl adhesives cause severe damage to the ABS of Royalex when they were used improperly to bond vinyl anchors. When using these adhesives, enough time must be allowed for the MEK to “degas” before mating the surfaces. Otherwise the MEK might degas through the thinner vinyl coating of the inside of the Royalex hull rather than the (usually) thicker vinyl anchor patch.
It is just a gut feeling but I would be concerned that a product with such a high percentage of MEK would be more likely to damage Royalex.