Several years ago, I installed vinyl D-rings on my foam core kevlar Prism using vinybond, just as I had done before on my Rx boats. I seem to recall generally following the instructions on the Voyageur website. The strength of the adhesion has never been really tested. I've not swamped the Prism with a week's worth of gear strapped down, etc. Still, the vinybond seems to have held up really well. I have no, zip, nadda experience with epoxy/fiberglass/kevlar do-it-yourself projects. The vinybond seems bomb-proof on royalex and has been tested in those boats.<br />
Now, I'm outfitting a kevlar ultralight Vagabond. Should I just do what has worked for me before, or should I go ahead and learn about epoxy/resin and "glass in" some 1" web loops? I've seen the suggestion to glass in loops before, but I'm having no success in searching the archives on this question.
Glassing in the loops will be stronger, but is the vinybond strong enough anyway on epoxy/kevlar, when installed properly? What is really involved in glassing in the loops? What material/brands/web-sources-for-purchase would you recommend? Are "epoxy" and "glassing" even the proper terms (I suppose glass in refers to fiberglass)? Common pitfalls?
I have been having good luck with the polyurethane glue (gorilla or elmers). They are water activated and generate no heat in the curing process. I have glued D rings on FG and Royalex with excellent results so far. Should be fine and a lot less messy that dealing with epoxy.
Stick with vinybond Vinybond should stick better to epoxy than to royalex.
However, you want to actually glue to the epoxy, not whatever Wenonah uses for UV protection on the inside of their boats. So, find out what they use, clean it off in the spot and glue your ring down.
Gorilla Glue? I don’t mean to highjack this thread but does Gorilla Glue work well on D-Rings? I’ve always used a 3-M adhesive I got from my paddling buddy and most of the D-rings have held up quite well to date. I did loose 2 but I think I was being stingy with the goop when I put it on.
To clarify I may have confused the issue a bit by using the term “epoxy,” which can mean some type of glue. The alternate method to the vinyl d-rings does not involve “gluing” down the 1" nylon webbing strap exactly. I’ve seen somewhere the suggestion to lay down layers of kevlar or some equivalent, along with the goop that is used to make the kevar canoe, over the ends of the webbing, with the loop sticking up and out. So, the ends of the 1" nylon webbing would be anchored into and integrated into the structure of the canoe itself, to a large degree. I’m not making myself 100 percent clear here, I fear, because of my lack of knowledge in this area. I wish that I could recall where I saw this method explained, but it made a lot of sense at the time. One could also add a metal D-ring to the equation, but I see little need to do so.
Now, royalex, is a different matter, I think. I can’t imagine a tighter bond than with vinybond and royalex. The vinybond, as I understand it, actually melts or dissolves some of the vinyl in the D-ring circle of vinyl and in the outer layers of the royalex itself. Sort of fuses it all together. Thus, one must be very careful to use the method of using only a tiny amount, let it dry, heat it back up, then bond.
I have been experimenting with it on several different surfaces and it holds much better than Vina Bond so far. I had two identical d rings that I use for tie downs side by side in my roylalex boat and I have already had to re glue the Vina Bond one while the Gorilla Glue one can support my body weight when I have it hanging under my carport. It is also doing well on Fiberglass. I just used it to glue in some new foam pieces in the bottom of my Royalex WW boat. I will be testing it out this weekend.
Vina Bond is actually more like a contact cement as opposed to a solvent type which would ‘melt’ the pieces together by generating heat. Last thing you want on royalex is a anything that generates any heat in the curing process as it can cause delamination. Lately though I have not been happy with how well D rings and foam pieces have been staying stuck with VB. Thats why I started trying new things.
There are different opinions, evidently Here is some information that I think is basically accurate, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, as they say:
“RoyalexTM is a thermoformed laminate material with expanded foam core, ABS plastic inner layers and vinyl outer skins. As the surface you will be bonding to will be vinyl this will dictate choice of adhesive. RoyalexTM is a
flexible material and this eliminates the use of rigid adhesives such as fiberglass resins, “Super” glues, etc.”
“COMPONENT: D-RINGS W/ VINYL PADS
ADHESIVE: VYNABOND CONTACT CEMENT
VynabondTM is a waterproof contact cement specially formulated to bond vinyl to vinyl. This makes it particularly well suited to bonding flexible vinyl pad Drings
“Conventional D-rings are most frequently made with stitched webbing securing the D to a flexible base pad . . . Stiff webbing is stitched to vinyl base pad . . . In terms of canoe applications, vinyl is actually desirable, especially for installation on RoyalexTM
canoes as this allows for the bonding of two like materials(vinyl).
“The methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) solvent based products (such as Vynabond) are certainly a potential problem when used on ABS because MEK can melt ABS.” (Thus, the warnings to use this stuff sparingly).
The poster at cboats.net means “melt” as in not with heat, but as in dissolve or melt chemically, as did I. But, maybe, the difference is that the vynabond doesn’t melt the vinyl layer, but it can melt the inner ABS layer.