Somewhere there is a list of natural progression on rivers. I do not think it advocates jumping into CII tech right off the bat. Better to build your skills over time by starting with smaller problems.
Moving water, swifts, CI, CII, CII tech, CIII, etc.
By demonstrating competence in the natural progression, and being able to "play" each one as you progress your WW skills build on the previous sessions.
BTW, instruction by a competent guide can compress the learning curve.
Hmmm… All good advice here, even BOB’s. It’s just the tone that these boards have taken lately. Recently there was a thread about P-net profile skill levels. After that post I changed my skill level from Intermediate to beginner, and decided that it would always stay at beginner. As far as I am concerned, a persons rating of themselves is irrelevant because a beginner can lie and say their an expert, duh. I think a bit to much importance is being put on those self evaluated skill levels.
Am I a beginner or an intermediate? ? i am not concerned with “rating myself” only concerned with enjoying the outdoors safely.
I do want to say this. I like to share tips that I have learned from my experience. Do I need to make a point to give the name and number of the Instructer/Guide that I learned it from so that you can verify that it came from someone with a certification? And what’s wrong with me giving advice from my own experience?
I think everyone should and does take what they read on here with a grain of salt anyways, it’s a discussion board. If everyone had to justify everything they said with credentials or paddle history - where they’ve paddeled, how many hours logged - seasons - water temp, etc. Gimme a break.
I wasn't there, didn't see it & live hours away. So it is virtually impossible for you to have done what you say.
Sorry, I think you are a bold faced liar & have only been on a river once, the shore that is... You may have thrown a stone in that river & that constitutes you to changing & destroying the environment... That makes you a knuckle dragging neanderthal with no respect of nature or others in the civilized world. And you probably own a gun too ;)
inflatable kayaks do require the same skills as far as paddeling, minus rolling. Please don't mislead anyone into thinking they dont need skills to paddle an IK. For your information a overly large percentage of deaths in WW are associated with rented duckies. This is due to the misconception of unskilled paddelers that you don't need the same skills to paddle them. If you dont believe me just go check the fatality reports on AW.
old school learning i am a big fan of old school learning. I understand there is a place for classes, but for many paddlers, taking classes only slows their progression. a beginner could go through the local classes around here and remain a beginner for 3 years, or they could just get out on the river regularly, pick up tips from others, and progress much faster. not for everyone, but i really think it’s for many.
Wading in… Heather, when I first read your post I put the best construction on it. Practicing skills in less demanding situations is part of good instruction and development. However, I can’t think of any of my instructors who would advocate your scenario as stated. A 3’drop on REAL classII, boney conditions can have serious consequences if the 300-400cfs is pouring thru a chute or into a ‘hidden’ hole. The danger in your recommendation is that it takes some experience to translate guages and book ratings of a stream into real conditions. Also, many people overrate the conditions they have paddled and could be unprepared for the conditions you describe.
Bob saw the potential danger in your post and he cut to the chase. He has the credentials and experience and can be trusted to say it plainly. He knows that thousands of people read this site and could come away with the wrong idea.
i’m not a part of this argument but I’m pretty sure that inflatable kayaks are much easier than hardshell kayaks. More people get hurt on inflatables because more beginners are on inflatables not because inflatables are as challenging as other kayaks. I’ve seen many beginners go down class IV rapids in an IK which they couldn’t even imagine doing in a hardshell kayak without getting seriously injured. I’ve also been in an IK in some low class IV stuff and I was literally taking a nap down the river. It’s definitely fun but the challenge is definitely different. hdove7, are you as confident in big water in your hardshell as your IK?
Pamskee… I absolutely understand that - BUT - i give people a little bit more credit. I added (for those who maybe really do have only 1/2 a brain) that this should be done with a goup/guide with rescue skills. Actually the conditions I was speaking of boney (meaning little water) and 300-400 (slower current) and I also said “low water.” This in general is descriptive of a river with mild current where the consequenses of a screw up would be very minor. I am at the point where p-net is for entertainment value only - because it’s full of condescending comments and constant bickering. Yea I did lash out after Bob’s post, but I am sick of it.
seems everyone has their opinion and “spin” on things. What some imagine as conditions may be very diffent thn what others are actually posting about. Class II IMHO with lots of rocks would be a slower paddle than class II with less rocks. I can see playing in em as long as the yak wouldn’t get out of control. It’s all subjective to the reader. OLts not det carried away with insults and jabs. I can learn lots more from straight advice /suggestions .
and I am not afraid to admit it either! I have alot more experience handeling my IK than I do my hard kayak. There are definate ro's and con's for each. The consequenses of not being able to handle an Ik can be just as bad as any boat. Ultimately death.
@@@ 1v and taking a nap - isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? LOL
Heather—disagreement doesn’t constitute condescention. I think you may be reading motive into people’s posts.
We paddle low volume, shallow streams that require some skill to avoid entrapment. There have been drownings on the easiest one. Your statement about 300-400cfs being a mild current is stream specific. I’m not trying to pick on you, I’m trying to explain what Bob and others saw as a potentially misleading post. There are streams in our area that require more skill at 300-400cfs. Bob knows of streams in his area that are similar. I am somewhat familiar to the streams in your area, so when I read your post, I pictured your streams. They are relatively unobstructed and open.
Paddle how and where you desire, but be prepared for strong disagreement if you post an opinion that could pose a safety issue. Take into account that p-net is a worldwide site. It’s been a help to me and I hope you can get more than entertainment from it.
