Waxing kayak for speed & glide

[Jyak]

PaddleDog52, you’re surely right and absolutely correct when comparing entry level paddles to a performance paddle. Comparing the 650 cm2 (?) CD Celtic to the 750 cm2 (?) CF Celtic is a good example for compare paddles with a different blade area. I was thinking more along the lines of upgrading to a “lighter paddle with a better blade design”, such as comparing your Ikelos (710 cm2) and your Corryvreckan (721 cm2). I’m curious about your opinion between them, since the fiberglass model has a larger (11 cm2) blade than the Ikelos. That’s similar to comparing the fiberglass Camano which has a larger (7 cm2) blade than the Kalliste.

Many paddlers don’t know what to expect from spending more on a paddle (which is another topic on the forum). I went from an all fiberglass Carlisle, to a hybrid Aqua Sting Ray (587 cm2), then a carbon/fiberglass Werner Camano (650 cm2), and to an all carbon Werner Kalliste (643 cm2) then the same model but 10 cm longer, which I use presently. The price range was $120, $139, $250 and $450. They’re all respectable paddles (a few unmentioned paddles are standing sentinal in the tomato garden).

The difference between the first and current paddle is incremental between each step, but worlds apart from first to last. The Camano (650 cm2) is a mid level touring paddle, and the Kalliste (643 cm2) is the performance version. My logs list the boat and paddle used on each trip. Its was hard to decide which is better until using each for a number of consecutive trips. That’s when the superior paddle becomes obvious.

I tested them at all out effort for 30 seconds, with at least two minutes between sets, alternating between each paddle. After three sets. The GPS showed a consistent maximum speed difference of .3 mph favoring the Kalliste. The main difference between the two was at maximun speed, where I could feel the onset of flutter and turbulence flowing around the Camano blade; none was noticed with the Kalliste. It’s much harder to compare over a longer course and get consistent comparable results. While the difference of a .3 mph spike lasting 1 or 2 seconds is significant, it can’t be extrapolated to efforts such as a 10 mile trip. It does show that the Kalliste can be pushed harder.

The suprise was that the larger area of the Camano (albeit only 7 cm2) didn’t give it an advantage; I expected at least equal. I believe the difference is due to blade efficiency, especially at low angle where the blade slices the water, rather than tip first as in high angle. That shovel handle style connection between the shaft and the blade is a killer. Compare the cross sections:

While the Camano’s shortcomings were only felt when approaching peak effort, I’d expect its performance could be closer to the Kalliste at cruising speeds. Maybe a .15 mph difference, but I’m comfortable claiming a more conservative .1 mph while comparing those two paddles.

Over distance, the Camano’s higher overall weight would be a big factor, because the paddle is held away from the chest and swinging thousands of times per hour. Swing weight is an even bigger factor. The light weight of the carbon blades compared to the fiberglass makes a massive difference, which gives the Kalliste an edge for comfort and energy efficiency. The difference between them is $200, or the price of a Sting Ray, a bottle of decent whiskey and a case of cheap beer. Fact is, I already have them and two Kalliste paddles.

Incidentally, I compared the two Kallistes that are 10 cm different in length. There isn’t any significant speed difference between them that I can detect. I do prefer the longer shaft, because it offers wider hand placement that lets me use muscle groups differently, the paddle can be shifted comfortable to one side for short duration, enables a wider sweep stroke, allows a lower my more comfortable lower paddle stroke, and lets me open the chest to improve breathing.

As with larger blade area, a longer paddle isn’t the answer for everybody. Taking this back to the post about waxing for speed, I believe an easy way to increase speed is to invest in the next level of paddle. Hope this helps at least one paddler getting into the kayaking movement.

[PaddleDog52]

Smooth back Ikelos is less disruptive on entry and probably exit than spine backed Celtic or Corryvreckan no matter how hard I try. 750 Celtic is the fastest paddle I have used. If they made an 800 I’d try that. Somewhere you’re at diminished returns.

Celtic is the fastest. The best part is adjustable length 205-220. Makes you fickled at times.

[Jyak]

Dang, Dog! Excuse my delayed response. I swallered my tongue, and it took a few seconds to recover it. If I recall correctly, you ride waves?

[PaddleDog52]

Well mostly South Shore Long Island Bay paddling. Usually 2’ or less chop with white caps or creating tops. Some swells in Jones Inlet no big breaking waves for me I’m always alone. Few trips in the Long Island Sound. My partner doesn’t like it to rough she’ll take some big boat 4’ breaking waves or wakes in the tandem Libra XT without much concern.

Not going in the ocean alone . In a group it’s fine. I haven’t been in a group for quite a few years. Haven’t paddled with anyone all last year my partner hurt her knee.

Get to pick my on destinations and speeds. Average group paddles I’ve been in are 2.5 mph not really for me. Then everyone is spread over a 1/4 mile or more talking in two’s or three’s.

Swallowed your tongue about what?

[PaddleDog52]

How we spend our money is a personal choice. People have different values on things in life. Seakayaker magazine did the scientific testing on hulls. They gave specific numbers on each hull they tested. I could look at my CD Solstice, Extreme, and Expedition hulls and see the numbers. Only source I know that did testing you could get for free. Racers would give hundreds if not thousands to gain a yard on #1 boat after 10 miles.

Two pounds doesn’t make much difference I would guess.

Offshore race boats would have the bottoms I guess be blueprinted as they say so there’s no hooks or hollows in the bottom. I’ve raced 120 miles to beat or be beaten by a boat length. Speed difference after that long is mind boggling. How many HP or pounds was the difference? One turn slightly wider it all adds up. Running a straighter tighter course was probably most valuable.

[Jyak]

800 cm2 blades. That could double as a pizza peel. Remember that I’m using 643 cm2. I’m in the analysis mode for the winter. I linked my phone to the tv so I can view my speed graphs on a larger screen. Next year I’m going to experiment with a slightly larger blade.

Long Island Sound is very similar, to the Chesapeake Bay, being 21 miles across at the wide point and 110 miles long, compared to the Chesapeake Bay, at 30 miles by 200 miles long. The biggest difference is that the Sound has colder water and greater tidal extremes. I’m fine up to 2 feet, but it becomes a real pain fighting wind and current that goes along with anything bigger. The upper section where I paddle is under 10 miles wide.

[PaddleDog52]

Navionics has a screen where you can see your speed as you paddle if you want easily.

[PaddleDog52]

Best thing is “Brylcream a little dab will do you.”

Really dated myself with that. Can’t believe they still make it.

[Jyak]

I get that. Pure speed isn’t important unless its for competition. My enjoyment comes from coaxing as much as I can get from the who package - boat, paddle, physical conditioning, technique, and force of will to push the envelope. I’m not interested in being faster than someone else. My competive spirit is about personal improvement.

I also like to explore. While stationed in Northern Germany during the early 70s, five of us bought bikes to explore the countryside. We’d go out a few miles and turn around. One day I said, “Let’s keep going, I want to go further than I’ve been before!” Needless to say, that became the buzz word - “We’ve been further than we’ve ever been before !!!”

I have a Garmin deck mounted GPS, set for large numbers that displays speed, distance, avg speed, max speed, moving time. I tried using the phone, but it overheats and shuts down in the sun. The app works in the sleep mode to preserve battery and stays cool and dry in a Pelican hooked on my seat straps. It keeps the same stats, but it also records the course track and graphs speed. I’m studying the graphs to better understand how the paddle strokes translate into glide.

I enlarged a segment and broke out a 2 minute interval that had about a .3 mph variation in speed. My trip focus is setting a goal to bracket a target speed, whether going against wind and current or with it. The tighter the graph, the more contant the glide. The steps are actually the line plotter trying to draw a straight line, but each step appears to be between one to one and a half seconds. If I want to track a specific paddling cadence or stroke catch/release, I can pause to create a down spike, try out the technique, then pause to create another down spike to mark the test range. Still learning how to use it and hope to understand it better by spring.

I remember “Brylcream, a little dab’ll do yah!”

[PaddleDog52]

Your speed will vary between strokes I guess and give spikes. I’m not getting all that technical. I’ll listen to my speed averages over 1/4 mile intervals and speed average for entire trip. Sprints I can watch the phone in windless currentless water.

Going into the wind and or against a small chop you’d swear it’s faster but it’s not.

Cruising I rather have a bigger blade and lower cadence.

The shovel handle attachment you speak of how does it bother you?

[Magellan]

Ok Kooky settle down .

[Kevburg]

Those tiny spikes may well be byproducts of GPS inaccuracies rather than anything real. For example one sample could locate you 10 feet too far forward, the next 10 feet too far backward, which would result in a fast spike followed by a slow spike. If your device has an elevation profile as well as speed, see what it looks like when you paddle on flat water. Is it spiky as well?

It would be interesting to know the sample rate and what smoothing algorithm that they use.

[PaddleDog52]

Settle down about what?

[Magellan]

You didnt get it?? You dated yourself with the Byicream. Kooky on 77 sunset strip used that to grease back his long black hair. Was always combing it. There was even song out about it .

[PaddleDog52]

Yes I turned 70 yesterday I remember him well.

Kookie

[carldelo]

@PaddleDog52

Seakayaker magazine did the scientific testing on hulls. They gave specific numbers on each hull they tested. I could look at my CD Solstice, Extreme, and Expedition hulls and see the numbers. Only source I know that did testing you could get for free.

Actually, I’m sorry to say after the first year (or less, not remembering exactly), the SK hull data published in the magazines was generated by simulation software. Disappointing, but they did use it consistently over the years, so comparisons between hulls was useful, even if the numbers were never validated.

[PaddleDog52]

Tons of things are done on simulation software and never validated physically.

[steevey]

Another factor that gets overlooked is comfort with your boat. If you are not fully sure of your stability, you can’t truly focus on getting everything out of the boat, plus you will burn out quicker due to having more muscles engaged throughout your paddle working on maintaining balance.

[carldelo]

@PaddleDog52

Tons of things are done on simulation software and never validated physically.

Agreed and definitely still valuable, but calling it ‘testing’ made it sound like experimental results - that’s all I meant.

[Jyak]

Anyone not interested in GPS or doing more than just enjoying the paddling experience, stop reading now. For anyone following, don’t misunderstand that I think my data is proof of anything. Challenges are welcome.

Agree Kevberg, about the possibility of spikes being wider triangulation, which is I discuss below. Also agree with PaddleDog52 about perception. After I started kayaking, my sister began to accompany me. We’d turn a corner and she’d remark about how fast we were going. The sensation of speed is een greater with multiple kayaks going into the wind, line abreast. When I explained the GPS showed a 1.5 mph drop, she refused to believe it. Perception of speed is typically false, even if you understand the conditions of wind and current.

She would occasionally drift off, beyond 200 yards. When I asked why she was off course, she countered that I was off course. Showing her the nautical chart with the channel marker she passed didn’t matter. Despite other evidence and even scrolling to the course track recorded in the GPS, she refused to accept being off course. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s double frustrating to wait for a slower person when they veer off course and won’t correct it (that’s why I solo). I’m convinced GPS is far more accurate and consistent than human perception, unless its backed by years of experience. I learned in Abnormal Psychology, “perception is reality.”

So how accurate is the GPS and the graph? Initially, the graphs made no sense. Consistent with Kevberg’s suggestion, a higher sampling rate reduces accuracy by using fewer satellites to triangulate, increasin error.

Last year was spent trying to figure out the app. This year I focused on recoding info. As PaddleDog52 alluded to above, the greater the sample (more distance you travel) the more accurate the reading. GPS apps calculate time over distance, so there’s no dispute that speed reading over the first quarter mile are less accurate than those processed over ten or twenty miles. In the absence of a signal, a GPS will connect the dots with a straight line between the known samples. So how straight is the GPS plotted course? It’s sure imore accurate than perception. Its easy to check sensitivity with a detour glitch. Edge right or left for two, five or ten seconds, or .1 mile. The error is still there, but at least you have a relatively know comparison. How accurate is the average speed and distance? Use a chart with dividers and measure the distance, then see how it compares to the GPS trip distance and the moving time. If you get the same answer, the old world and new world methods are consistent. So how could a GPS have a sampling error, yet produce the same result as the hand calculations. If a speed sample of 4.1 mph is a false reading, could it actually be 3 mph or 5 mph, and that means the next reading might be 5 mph or 3 mph, an average of 4 mph, a.1 mph error. Somewhere, all these averages will average out? But where and how? So should I trust perception or have faith in the average accuracy of the GPS?

Every trip this year has been over the same course, a switchback that divides 8.5 miles into two, 2 mile legs, with 1/4 mile leg at the turn. That gives equal weight traveling against or with tide, current and wind conditions. It also reduces distance errors. Sometimes I’d let the conditions push the kayak, other times I’d edge to maintain a heading; sometimes paddling at a given effort, other times pushing the envelope as needed to stay close to average speed.

I logged 21 samples for comparison and now have cables that cast the app to my 65 inch tv screen, rather than study the graphs on a 2" x 6" screen.

Trip graphs can be interpreted to show energy use and paddle technique. For example, sharper spikes show I’m having btrouble staying on glide struggling, higher speed on the last leg show more effective energy management. Down spikes at two mile intervals are water break, with a longer spike at the mid-point turn. The earlier charts show where I was going with or against the conditions. The last charts show flatter graphs with narrower peaks and drops, where consistent paddling cadence and speed control was the focus. So based on the samples, should I interpret the graphs as spurious?

I’m only suggesting the potential of the GPS and have not looked closely enough to find conclusions. My only remark is don’t under estimate the value. So far, I’m not seeing what I consider wild inconsistencies. My conclusion IS: it’s a far greater asset for increasing speed through testing and analysing performance, equipment and conditioning than waxing your boat.