Orion?
If you are in the UK. Same size accomodations as the Gulfstream.
get a more stable boat
you’ll have fun, you’ll learn to paddle and brace, and you’ll pick up balance skills along the way. later you can move to something else if you want to.
don’t get too hung up on any one boat- just get out and have fun on the water.
af
Is the NDKyours Floyde or a loaner???
Maybe you should challenge him
to paddle a surfski then he’ll really be happy with the NDK.
Big Paddlers can be comfy
"I just want to see a big paddler, my size, that is a comfortable paddler in varied conditions…"
OK, I am a big paddler that is very comfy with my boat and with a number of boats I have tried. I am not quite as big as you, but paddle with a lot of guys that are bigger than you and love their boats. None of them paddle anything like the 21.5" Explorer you are in - even those that are more experienced.
I am going to do for you the same thing Sean Morley did for me - look you right in the (virtual) eyes and tell you that it is not going to happen for you in that small boat and that you are wasting your time and energy. Haven’t you proven that to yourself already? Be determined (or stubborn), but you have already proven that you need more stability, and are not “growing into” that Explorer.
Most guys your size, even elite paddlers paddle boats with app. 23" beam. Ask here what boats people your size are using - I doubt you’ll see many Explorers or the like.
You received a lot of good advice on the last post. But the bottom line is that nobody else can tell you how your clothes should fit, what type of girl you should marry, or what kayak will be perfect for you, especially over the internet.
The only option, which is not at all hard, is to find boats to try out. Me and the big guys I paddle with use some of the following boats:
P&H Cap. 173, Valley Aquanaut HV, Gulfstream/Scirocco/Orion, WS Tempest 180, Seaward/Foster Shadow (my current ride), Impex Assateague. Any of these boats will be a night and day difference for you which you will notice immediately, and some of them will feel just right. They are all high performance boats.
A smaller person would find these boats too hard to get on edge, and be dominated by them - but they will feel great to you.
You got plenty of great advice in the last thread, and I don’t know why you won’t try some bigger boats. These are not barges, and you will be much faster in these boats since you are not expending all your energy staying upright.
nah
I don’t get the sense he’s a cocky SOB…
AF
Ok, but you might win the bet
"secondary is misleading"
you used this description for a more stable plastic boat, what does this mean? I would think it’s non-existant in the Explorer with your upper body weight.
To clarify
The NDK is a boat supplied by the peeps that take groups out. All their basic kit is NDK’s.
Unfortunatly my location means that trying various boats isn’t always possible and takes time for boats to arrive if the guy can get hold of one.
I think he has managed to get hold of another boat to try (different make) which has higher deck and different hull design… this, as he says, may be no better but gives me something to gauge on.
What I meant before about the wide plastic boat was that, to me at the time, it felt like sat still it was stabler than the NDK but when it did get twitchy in choppiness it was harder to correct when tipping where as I could see even if I couldn’t master that the NDK responded alot quicker to corrections… but this is all as it appeared at the time.
I have been going out in the NDK purely because that is the boat that the club provides… admittedly I am the biggest paddler they’ve had in sessions.
As I said before I only started this thread again so as to let you know how I’m getting on. Hopefully I will have a different boat to try on Sunday. I will let you know name and model once I’ve been out.
I’ve been out 8 times in last 5 weeks. The majority of the time in the NDK.
Maybe I’m painting too harsh a picture of my ability… I’m not in the drink every 5 minutes but my concentration is taken up with trying to stay out of the drink and not on progressing with strokes and the like.
You have all been very kind in giving your advice and I read each bit carefully so I can form a better understanding and opinion.
I am determined though… my girlfriend who started the same time as me and is alot shorter and lighter than me has really grasped it and is making great progress.
zing!
you guys are good sports.
aha!
So the truth comes out: the GF is putting you to shame.
Seriously though, have you asked within the group if there is a craft available to anyone that might fit you better?
Another idea is to take a vacation this winter (not sure where you live), take your GF, and go somewhere like Georgia or Fla where you can rent or demo some sea kayaks. You have to take a break anyway, right?
I have a very fit friend, 6’2" and probably 200#; triathlete and mountain bike pro, so we know we’re talking a thin guy here. He still has trouble fitting into my explorer. Frankly, oftentimes I find it too big for me, and I’m still searching, but I have some on my shopping list because I’ve demoed so darn many boats.
Bottom line is you have to find any excuse or leave no stone unturned in order to try another boat. Once you find something that even fits moderately, you’re gonna love it, and it’s going to allow you to get into more challenging conditions. You could go the rest of your life bitching at the explorer, or you could just find that perfect boat…but to do that you have to find a way to look.
Look hard for some bigger boats
Floyde,
I don’t know much about kayaking in the British Isles, but there has to be some clubs or dealers or even just other paddlers within a reasonable distance who can give you a quick demo. You will know right away if the demo boat is a candidate.
Perhaps the instructors where you are learning would know of a source to try a bigger boat. It will be worth some research and travel time, since it sounds like you have been bitten by the kayaking bug and are serious about getting better.
brit isles?
Have you sent this to P&H or Valley or NDK?
I’m ignorant re: the geography but it seems like someone would try to get you into a boat that fits.
Higher deck
– Last Updated: Oct-29-07 4:53 PM EST –
If you are in the UK, either an older Orion or the bigger Capella listed above may be what he is getting you. Or maybe a P&H Quest. Tho' if it's an all NDK bunch they are really stretching it - P&H and NDK are dueling a good bit right now.
All of the above will have a higher deck in the size that should fit you.
If you are really lucky, he's found a Rockpool that might work for you. You won't be any drier, but it should be a spiffy feeling boat compared to the Explorer.
or you could get a bigger girlfriend
Just make sure she isn’t a good paddler.
Seemed clear to me
He said: “the NDK’s were twitchy and tippy but a lot more savable at the last minute…”
AKA - Not much primary, good secondary.
So the reverse for the wider hull - good primary, not too much secondary.
Sounds pretty textbook to me - - and a great observation from someone at that level of boat time.
Side note - at 16 stones - and wider up top than any of my kayaks - I’d rate an Explorer nearly nap worthy for stability! Maybe not so when I was first trying sea kayaks - but Ex was one of the first I ever tried. Must be my lower COG.
Floyde needs to stop looking at other people (particularly smallish women) and just learn to feel what the hull is doing (and stay loose and let it vs. overreacting to it). It should be noted that for every bit of disadvantage his size gives, it can also give and advantage in terms of relative ease of control (a “sportier” rise, but hard to appreciate that while at a skill level where he’s fighting to stay upright). GK has a point too - put him on a ski for 1 minute and he’ll have a new appreciation for the the stability of the Ex (which I’ll bet he has outfitting issues which he’s not really aware of too).
As for trying bigger kayaks, SactoBob offered a pretty decent short list.
not the reverse
One can have more primary stability AND more secondary once you get to a taller/top heavy paddler. Not all boats with higher primary stability (for average sized person) have less controll (secondary) at the capsize angle with a bigger person.
The kayak with decent primary and secondary for an average sized person can simply be too tippy with too quick a transition to and through the capsize angle,sure it’s quick to save,but if the big person is having react quickly all the time it’s simply tiring for little reward.
What you are feeling
is very real and you have options. Kayaking really favors people with a low center of gravity. They can paddle a narrower kayak and go faster. You have a couple options to get more stability. You can paddle a wider kayak until your skills develop and let you paddle a narrower kayak or try to get your center of gravity lower. Most commercial kayaks have seats that are a 1/2" to 1’ above the bottom of the kayak and this can make a kayak feel much more tippy. If you have the opportunity to try the same kayak with the seat taken out and just sit on the hull you’ll be amazed at how much stability you will gain. You can also gain even more stability if you lay you legs flat on the hull instead of having them bent upwards. My current favorite kayak is 19" wide and very playful (tippy) and I find that sitting on the hull without any fancy seat is just fine and having my legs braced flat down to the hull is just fine too. Someone with your build needs to take advantage of every option to lower your center of gravity
try
I’m 6’3" 270lbs
I currently paddle a q700.
My first kayak was a Prijon Kodiak. The kodiak is a fast boat and I have used it in several races and done well against glass boats. The q700 is ‘slightly’ faster cruising and much faster at a sprint.
Anyway both of these boats work well for me.
Borrow or rent some different boats.
I’m 6’ and was 285 pounds. I searched
for the right boat for a long time, trying out many.
Eventually I realized that I had to limit my field to recreational kayaks until I lost the weight. I’m buying my a touring yak tomorrow.