fit
Hi Floyde,
I think a key issue is if your upper legs are fitting in the
kayak correctly. You have probably been told you want your
legs to make contact with the deck (or cockpit rim).
While this is true you want this something you are able to do.
Not something you have no control over. If your legs are tight
against the cockpit rim this tends to make your upper body
move as the boat moves from side to side rather than letting
your hips move with the kayak and your upper body staying vertical
or centerline with the kayak.
If your legs have enough room in the kayak you might want to
pay attention to them when you are feeling tippy. Sometimes
people, when they feel unstable, will press their legs up against
the rim (against the deck) because it makes them feel secure.
However, this causes them to be “locked” into the boat much as
someone that is too big for a particular boat. If your legs are ok
in the kayak pay attention to how relaxed you are.
Your weight above the water truly does make you less stable
than a smaller person. But as you become comfortable in a kayak
your height will give you some advantages.
If you and the instructors feel you fit in the kayak ok you might
want to put some weight in the kayak to help balance out your
upper body weight. By weight I mean more that a change of cloths
and lunch. You might even want to get a plastic container that
is just small enough to fit through your day hatch and fill it with
lead weights that are used for fishing. Make sure it is stable
in the bottom of the boat and will not roll around from side to
side. This will help put ballast in the center of the boat below
or at the waterline.
good luck
Weight & Balance (Cont’d)
Floyde -
I have a 52" chest, stand 5’11" and tip the scales at just under 17 stone. I paddle a Nigel Foster Shadow (17’ x 22.5"), and I was having much the same problem as yourself. I practiced and pushed the limits quite a bit, but didn’t feel confident until I took up Tai Chi. Believe it or not, I had the same balance problems trying to do Tai Chi as I did in the kayak. But my instructor rapidly cured the balance problems, which allowed me to get very comfortable very quickly in the kayak!
I don’t know if this will help you, or anyone else, but it sure worked well for me.
Best of luck to you.
I’m thinking along the same lines
as slowpaddle. Just trying to conjure an image based upon what I am reading - not easy. If both of your legs (thighs) are pressed against the braces and cannot be relaxed to approimately 1" below the braces you will not have any boat control (you will also not be able to learn to roll, but I digress …). If your legs were locked in this tightly it might feel like you were constantly fighting every little movement the hull wants to do - think unsteady.
Personally, I don’t like tightly fitting boats. I may be in the minority, but I like to be able to slide around the cockpit a bit and adjust where I sit - on center or slightly to one side. It’s easier to edge into the wind if you can do this rather than having to hold up one knee for an extended period of time.
So, if your thighs are really as tight as I imagine, you might try a couple of things to give you more room: 1.) a wider hulled/higher decked boat - others have given you a good list to try; 2.) remove the seat and sit on the hull, maybe add a 1/4" minicell pad - sounds like it might be difficult to do this on a club/rental/borrowed boat; 3.) remove some/all thigh brace padding - same problem as #2; 4.) try an Eplorer HV or NDK Poseidon - bigger deck around thighs and more foot room.
~wetzool
May be a simple case of being top heavy
Males tend to have more bulk above the waist than below it (no offense ladies).If someone is barrel chested and fairly muscular in the shoulders etc. there’s a good chance he has more weight above the cockpit than below it.
I’ve no idea how narrow a boat you’re discussing.
From my own trials with the artic tern (which at 23" width is neither brit boat narrow nor rec boat wide)I learned that the lower I sat in it and the better the hip bracing fit, the less unstable I felt.
There’s a small island in the upper niagara with a fairly clean water cove and what I did was take the tern over and practice leaning it and tipping it and getting used to it’s limitations.
Made a huge amount of difference in how stable I felt out in chop or wakes.
Don’t want to nitpick, but…
The Foster Shadow (which I paddle) is not 22.5" in beam, it is 23", and it is not 17 feet long, it is 17'10". These are significant differences from the numbers posted. And it's carrying capacity is 350 pounds.
See http://www.fosterkayaks.com/Glance.htm for the specs.
The point is that the Foster Shadow is designed for a large to very large paddler. I think that is why you were able to grow into the boat. That wouldn't likely happen in an Explorer spec type boat at your size or Floyde's. I would agree that the Shadow at first feels a bit less stable than other big guy boats such as a Capella 173 or Aquanaut HV, which might suit a beginner better.
Floyde, so many theories come from smaller people who just don't understand because the average and even smaller size boats are not a problem for them. Whoever suggested that these folks duct tape some weights to their shoulders and take a paddle was square on. It is brain dead simple, and you will understand at once when you demo some big guy boats.
Right now, you can't feel much edge. You want enough so that you can get to the edge easily, and stay there confidently. You don't want to find yourself constantly fighting to hold your position, either flat or on edge. You will see it right away, and the right boat will allow you to paddle similar to those little people.
Somebody above said that your height would offer offsetting advantages. I would like to hear one. The only advantage I know of being big is that usually you are strong, and can put out more power.
bingo
which is why I built a heavily reinforced Chesapeake 18, 18'x24 1/2", for lessons, there was a significant minority of big guys who COULD NOT be comfortable in the average sea kayak to learn anything that they were capable of learning in a basic four hour lesson. While most tall guys around 200lbs could manage in the "average" big sea kayak it was the BIG and TALL who were SOL.
For rental boats the 14-16' fat Carolinas were too cheap and the decks crumpled letting in water in the aft compartment. The other big boats were too tippy or submarines once flooded with the paddler inside. Nothing like a 275lb guy grabbing stuff in a nervous rescue to find out what rigging and hatches hold up,,on your boat and his.
Not all hatches can really handle 275lbs, not all rigging can handle a 275lb guy grabbing it with strength..and even a Necky Pinta needs a stronger aft deck for the size of paddler it's designed for.
I had two customers who HAD TO have a bigger stable boat, one fellow who was normally tall and big at 6'4"/230 but VERY NERVOUS, he took Basic I lesson four times and Basic II twice. That is dedication. The other guy was 6'5"320 lbs, middled aged farmer type but a natural athlete. This guy tossed himself up on the back deck like a seal, after breaking a Fastek buckle apart," note to self, fastek buckle and webbing has limits for hatch closure in rescues"
While we are here…
The note about your girlfriend doing so much better went by with just a couple of comments, but I feel like mentioning something here that the instructors may not have said about gurls.
If she is built along the usual lines - with most of her weight or her center of gravity in the posterior and maybe a bit short-torsoed - she'd be finding some of this easier than you even if you didn't have the size issue. Women are often so much more hesitant that it robs them of their natural advantage in a kayak. I certainly was and still have to fight that if I've been out of the boat for a while. But once we sit down in the boat our "center of gravity" is perfectly placed. Combine that with usually more flexibility and, as long as the boat isn't a barge, it makes things a heck of a lot easier.
Also while I am here - has it been established that you are in the UK? If yes, I am curious about what you are observing about those entering kayaking. The older hands in the BCU that I've encountered came up thru the UK club system doing whitewater as well as sea kayaking, some outstanding canoeists as well. I've been told that this was the norm in how the club system got youngsters paddling. In the US there isn't a club system. The folks entering sea kayaking are usually adults in the better earning years of their life, often with no background in paddling other than some camp canoe that a relative had on a pond when they were kids.
But if you and your girlfriend are just entering paddling now - it'd seem closer to the US...
Well…
… to start with I’m going to try a few ideas that have been mentioned.
Removing seat and adding weight…I wont be doing these things personally but the experienced instructor will.
I’m in the UK, actually Isle of Man… so access to trying many different Kayaks is alot harder. I am getting great support though and the intructor is bringing boats in as he can. Is fair to say that I’m the biggest person he’s had in groups and come back each week. So as much for me I think he’s determined to get me paddling and comfortable.
Continually going out in the NDK may seem a little silly and waste of time but time on the water is good regardless I’m thinking and I’m learning loads of bracing strokes (not good at them but hell… I’m working at what I can)… rescues and getting used to capsizing and not panicking/splashing and waiting for a boat to pull myself right.
Even with all the frustration I’m having I’m still enjoying it and am more determined than ever! 
As far as getting into Kayaking over here, I think alot of youngsters get in via the likes of the Sea Scouts, Duke of Edinburough Award Schemes and Adventure Clubs.
Schools are quite pro the sport and normally have the gear as well… (or at least use to).
Being a small Island watersports are quite popular.
6’5" 320lbs (USA)
I was having the same problem - heck i had trouble keeping a rec boat up right (been paddling a bout a year now)
i am 6’5" with a 31" inseam and a 56" chest - all upper body
I recently purchased a Sciroco used
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/showReviews.html?prod=875
been out in it 3 times - 3 to 4 ft of water and just focused on bracing and getting used to secondary stability.
Made a huge difference
over the winter will be taking pool classes and learning to roll so i don’t have to worry as much about constant recoveries
Once i gain the confidence to roll and brace more effectively I feel my form and strokes will improve - I think they already as a matter of fact.
As far a bashing your legs, you will be less likely to hurt yourself as you become more comfortable upside down - not thinking and just reacting when capsized will lead to flailing around that will lead to unwanted cuts and bruises
Just my $0.02
Good luck and keep at it
offsetting advantages
Simplest maybe if you look at it from the other extreme.
Small folks have to fight with too much kayak and are much more at the mercy of wind and wave action. Harder to dege, turn, etc. Nearly all are paddling kayaks too big for them, in terms of both overall length, volume, and cockpit fit (BIG time foam customers). They have very few option for proper fitting kayak (though it’s getting better).
Smaller folks, even in some of the newer downsized kayaks targeted to them - are at best getting OK touring performance and fit. A truly small and nimble playboat, or suitable L/W ratio racing hull, remains a bit elusive.
Developing more skill helps only so much with wrestling a large kayak, and the more skilled - the more they realize they could benefit from a proportionally downsized kayak.
People are so used to dealing with what is available, so most don’t even consider that a 17’18’ x 21" beam kayak that may be fine for many, and too narrow for a high GOG 19 stone fellow, can be like a 20’ x 26" boat for a small person. The small folks are not getting the same sort of relative performance options.
A big guy CAN find a properly sized kayak (many options have been mentioned already) and will not be “worked” by wind and wave to the same extent. As their skill increases the ability to handle narrower/smaller kayaks also increases, and so then do their options.
Even though the majority of kayaks may be too small/tippy for big guys - they DO have good larger options available. They can also often use the smaller ones they can manage to get into for certain types of paddling as their skills develop. Play boats and racing kayaks being the most obvious.
Put a big guy in one that’s a bit too small and he may have issues as we see on this thread, but there are better choices for him, and as his skills develop he may find there are times when the marginal sized kayaks offers a lot of play or speed potential with an appropriate skill level.
THAT’S the offsetting advantage - and it’s not immediate, but develops over time.
Not a waste of time
You’d have to be spending more time in the water than on it for this to be a waste of time.
The concerns here are just that you seem to be working harder than is necessary to get to a sweet spot in your learning, and it’d be nice if you could make that easier.
Buckles and webbing also…
… come in different materials that are WAY different in toughness. Even the best materials and hardware can fail due to cheap/poor stitching - and UV degradation over time takes it toll on all.
More likely those factors causing failures vs. paddler weight/strength issues. If you find hardware not up to the task, complain to mfg and replace or upgrade it.
As for layups - yeah, put enough weight on deck or a hatch cover and somethings going to give. Still, not all big guys are equally hard on stuff - so hard to make a decision to beef up layups universally on certain models. Not all that hard to add some aftermarket reinforcement either.
good points
And most of us can prove this by taking a trip, and experiencing how the boat performs when it is truly used as it was designed.
OTOH,I think some of us settle for larger because we only want one boat, and we want something we can take trips with.
Settling for larger
For those not at the extremes of size, yes. A bit extra for versatility. My QCC 700 certainly fits that bill - even though I don’t take advantage of it’s capacity, the reserve buoyancy has proven useful a bit more often that it’s extra volume has been a detriment.
so
Do you load it, even partially, whe you go out on a day paddle? I’ve taken to placing a few sandbags in my day hatch…
Displacement+ = Draft+ = DRAG+++
So no, I’ve never seen any need to ballast (I’m ballast enough for sure). I’d buy a different kayak if I did.
The 700 is also pretty well known to handle well over a pretty wide load range (I don’t recall hearing of anyone else ballasting a 700, but someone probably has). I’m probably close enough to the sweeter zone within that range with just me and day paddling gear (also, the various cockpit positions on the 700 have been in response to so many owners not using it loaded down as originally designed).
Just got a new boat, paddled for the
first time yesterday with you in mind. I’m 6’ and was 285, now down to 275 but what a difference the 10 pounds makes. I could not have paddled the new boat without difficulty. Its just a matter of hydrodynamics.
balance on shore?
How is your balance on shore?
Some folks have better balance than others. Often it is putting yourself in exercise situations where you can develop your balance.
First thing I advise folks with new boats to do is to tip it over to see the actual point at which it flips. Time in the boat will help but you really have to build confidence in the boat and yourself by experiencing when it will flip.
If you never ice skated, the first time on skates would make it seem impossible that anyone could even stand while wearing skates.
Try some basic floor exercises which allow you to twist and stretch, stand on one leg, etc. Should help.
Flip that boat intentionaly a few times to build your confidence. Experience the limits of your balance in that boat. You will get used to it. You probably don’t need a wider boat even though it would feel more stable initially. You need to own some skills if you are going to play in water over your head.
upper body and how guys balance
A lot of people have talked about boat fit and size, but only a few have mentioned balance. How guys carry and balance themselves is very important.
Most guys balance with their shoulders (most girls with their hips). A good example of this is to picture how an average male runs compared to how an average female runs. If you are bigger up top (in the shoulders, chest, and arms) then every time you try to balance you will probably be over correcting because you have more weight to shift around. This problem is even more noticeable with guys who lift weights.
My suggestion is to take up Tai Chi, yoga, or pilates.
The boat might be small for you, but you had problems in a wider kayak - makes me think the root of the problem is body mechanics.
Good point…
I remember watching beginner windsurfers. The women caught on faster as they relied more on balance and fineness and not upper body strength.