Looking for canoe for my son and I to pursue our love of up to class 3 whitewater. Was pretty set on a swift dumoine but I just saw wenonahs website and the wenonah rogue looks pretty good to me. Any experiences with either/both of these or other tandem ww capable canoe will be appreciated. We are about 360 pounds together at the moment and (son) is growing rapidly. Have roughly 200 miles of class 2/3 under our hull.(no Tommy C1, no plans to do anything like I took pictures of at bulls bridge, although the area below the falls looked real good to me)
Dumoine I have a Dumoine and have paddled class 2 with about 370 lbs of paddling weight. I don’t have tremendous whitewater canoe experience, but thought the Dumoine was responsive and predictable, however we did swim a couple of times getting in and out of eddys (our fault, not the canoe!). It is not a high-performance whitewater tandem but can handle big water and still carry weight for other floats. I am very pleased with the Dumoine. I have not been in the Wenonah.
thanks appreciate your response. Tried the dumoine twice but just on flatwater(demo days). Can’t seem to find a wenonah dealer stocking the rogue. Do you have the royalex or royalite, and if you have royalite, how has it held up?
I was looking to purchase a Wenonah Rouge too. Then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that the Rouge couldn’t offer any thing more than my Old Town Appalachian already does. So I saved my money and plan to buy a supernova next month…
How old is you son? I would think if you are going to be doing class II-III waters exclusively that two smaller play boats would be more fun for you both…
Either of the two boats you mentioned will definitely get the job done…
our favorite area have some flatwater in between the fun areas.Have some pictures here. If you check the bulls bridge folder you'll see some water too extreme for me, although the lower area looks great. My present canoe has a center seat and is a decent solo canoe, just getting too wet for us. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mattmccay@sbcglobal.net/my_photos You will need to paste from the http to the my_photos into your browser.I am a little leery of the royalite, seems quite thin, and have been happy with the royalex for the 4 seasons with my dagger.
Dumoine is a good general boat does either moderate ww fine as well as lake travel. not sure about the Rogue, never seen one. the Dumoine also holds a lot of gear as it is a sizeable craft. not too expensive either i think. there are a lot of boats in this category however, including trad boats, like Prospectors, but try to get a hold on how much you want to do ww and to what extent. if there is a lot of ww nearby and you are the type who really, “gets into” things, you may want a more ww specific design. but if you want a good all conditions, not awesome ww canoe, hard to go wrong with your choices.
Dumoine is a good general boat does either moderate ww fine as well as lake travel. not sure about the Rogue, never seen one. the Dumoine also holds a lot of gear as it is a sizeable craft. not too expensive either i think. there are a lot of boats in this category however, including trad boats, like Prospectors, but try to get a hold on how much you want to do ww and to what extent. if there is a lot of ww nearby and you are the type who really, “gets into” things, you may want a more ww specific design. but if you want a good all conditions, not awesome ww canoe, hard to go wrong with your choices.
looking at the reviews and the Wenonah website the Rogue seems to be a solid ww design and has considerable depth which the Dumoine lacks. It would be great to be able to demo them both, but not likely…
my .02 Since you’re considering these boats it may be worth a look at the Wenonah Prospector. I was looking at thow boats as well as an Esquif Canyon. I figured out that those along with the OT Appalachian we a little bit of overkill. I went with the 16 rx Prospector and it’s a fantastic boat! It’s not a dog on the flats, it’s pretty light for what it is, and it handles ww nimbly. Enjoy picking out your new boat. God Bless.
Thanks for the info I think I have to hit two “demo days” this year. The dealer on the farmington river sells swift and mad river, but I just found a Wenonah dealer on the housatonic, got to e-mail him because I didn’t see any rogues in stock, but I will check the prospector. Thanks guys, let the (for us normal folks) season begin!!
Dumoine I owned a Dumoine. It is not a whitewater boat, regardless of what Swift’s website says. Like others mentioned above, it’s a good general boat, that is fine on class 2 water. Then again, lots of boats are okay on CII. It’s a flatwater design. It’s fast, but it’s not dry. The Rogue is a deeper boat with more flare and although I haven’t paddled one I’d choose it to paddle CIII over a Dumoine. Esquif Canyon, Evergreen Starburst and Dagger Legend (if you can find one) are better suited to CIII whitewater…
Rogue I used to work in a paddle shop,and was able to try many boats. But never a Swift Dumoine.
In looking at the specs, I suspect the Dumoine is more of a general purpose boat- not something I would take on Class 3.
My major observation is this- of those that I worked with that bought a WW tripping canoe, they all chose a Rogue. Everyone’s second choice was the Esquif Canyon.
Part of that may be the type of WW. We have a lot of different types out here, from technical, pool drop, and bigger water (Deschutes, Rogue Rivers). It was the bigger water that made the destinction- the Rogue would come out nearly dry, while others were swamped. Down side is the windage- we get strong up canyon winds, and the Rogue can get set pointed upstream if the bow paddler is asleep.
Another observation- the Rogue has a more fair entry, like most of Wenonah boats. It seems to track better and glide a bit better than others; edge just a little and the stems are clear,making for great manueverability. The Esquif Canyon is slightly more manueverable on even keel. Good construction, but I think Esquif is setting a new standard for quality.
BTW, on the wenonah website, if you click on the Cascade info, the boat in the picture is not a Cascade, it is a Rogue. I know this for a fact…'cuz I am in the stern seat!
I like the bigger water, not the technical stuff so much. The higher the local (farmington) is the better. The housatonic is a fair sized river as well. I generally go during flood conditions, finding I am enjoying big waves better than big rocks. Will definitely look up the rogue and the esquif. I can use my Dagger for the tighter stuff.Karl, I'm going to the wenonah site right now(gotta e-mail the local dealer) and I'll check out your picture. Then I can add a blurb to the brush with fame thread. Frank Zappas bus, Dennis Andersons Truck(gravedigger), and Karls picture!!;).....update. E-mailed in state esquif and wenonah dealers, geez the esquifs pictures do show a high quality product.My present canoe has 2 coats of old town spray paint and 2 coats of polyurethane worn off it, esquif shouldn't make such a pretty boat.
Dumoine I have paddled prospectors extensively, a Dumoine a couple of times, and the Farmington river several times.
A prospector is a better tripping boat, a Dumoine is better for whitewater . . . especially the way you Americans often run it with an aggressive, faster than current technique. The prospector has a sleek entry which quickly widens out. This provides buoyancy which lifts the bow over waves. Buoyancy takes more time. The Dumoine has pretty extreme flare (for a tripping boat) which pushes itself up pretty well, and really blunt ends. The Dumoine is not as efficient on a lake (though if covered are quite seaworthy, I am told - Read Dave and Beth Buckley), and, being assymetric, handle differently. If I was going through Satan’s Kingdom in spring, or dropping off that little waterfall by the Tarrifville Gorge, I would go for the Dumoine (and put some floatbags in it).
I’m sure that you will have loads of fun in any of the boats mentioned here. Happy Paddling!
Oui Americans?? Faster than the current, and aggresive?? Only time we get aggresive is when my son is yelling “right right RIGHT” or “left LEFT” or “RRROCK”.Last set of rips get us charged up too. Thanks for the info. Actually the guy who gives us a shuttle to our favorite local area sells Evergreen canoes. Now I’ve got 5 places on my list…
Variations on rapid running If you float with the current your boat is like a leaf, at the mercy of what ever comes your way. There are two ways to get the water to work with your hull and give you control. Go faster than the current, aggressive, or slower than the current. I always thought of it as playboating technique vs tripping technique rather than American vs. Canadian but the best paddlers use both as conditions warrent.
that's it, my son and I use the Can-american canoeing technique, or is it Ameradian? whatever it is it seems to work, especially when I learned to kneel. My son could have used a seatbelt a few times but getting airborne definitely makes the day worth living.
