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For a 4 year old blem? absolutely.
Both happier; I’m sure…
– Last Updated: Feb-26-11 8:33 PM EST –
My haggles with the dealers I spoke about were & still are humorous & good spirited at worst. Someone trying to haggle down to 12 hundred on a 17 hundred dollar boat is bogus.
That being said, I agree with you. We will probably be happier if we never see, or deal each other.
I've never read much that was humorous from you, and a good laugh is always part of a good deal as far as I'm concerned.
Matter of fact; I just did a canoe deal today.
We both lingered longer than necessary in a windy parking lot; we talked about canoes, and had a few good laughs. We even laughed about the pre deal "haggling" we'd done.
Neither of us even came close to threatening to kick the other one out of the parking lot.
Maybe if it were a business for me I would think about it differently. I doubt I'd be threatening anyone over some bogus offer they made on a canoe. I'd probably laugh at them though.
I might laugh at a 650 offer on a blem Vagabond............
You of course have the option of verbally kicking at someone here who would make such an offer.
Not that it'll do you any good.........
;^/
BOB
Do you know what a slipmark is?
Vagabond
I bought mine 4 years ago this month. It too was blemished. This saved me 15%. Paddling murky waters I quickly dinged it up. You probably wouldn’t be able to find the original blemish I have so many scars on it now.
I too would suggest buying used. Heck, make me an offer! at 6’ 6" I was told I was too tall to enjoy this canoe. Not the case. I enjoyed it greatly. I’ve taken it on rivers and lakes and mulitple vacations. Wind, no wind, day trips, overnight trips…it’s all good. That said, there are many canoes I would have enjoyed also. It just so happens I bought the Vagabond.
This is the only canoe I have ever purchased. Many buy and sell, buy and buy again, few regret being able to go paddling. That said, the best advice I received wasn’t price…it was price, weight and storage.
I also want to comment that I have enjoyed reading the many posts of the two men who are currently being testy. Relax… many of us find you both worthy!
Testiness
Not sure it’s testiness, but more two very different sides of the coin.
We have a few posters on this thread whose basic premise is that shops are out to screw customers and you’ll pay too much if you’re not careful. I very strongly disagree with that.
What I suggest is simple. If you think a shop is screwing you over, don’t buy from them. If you don’t think a shop is screwing you over, don’t treat them like they are. Nothing hard about that.
Nobody opens a paddlesports shop to get rich. Mine started for a very simple reason, if I didn’t sell boats I’d have to drive almost 1,000 miles to find the type of boats I like. It’s a totally selfish reason, basically to make sure my friends and I have local toys to play with. If we can help others, great. If not, no worries, we’ll go paddling instead.
I am trying to warn people that if they walk into a shop with the “you’re screwing me” mentality, they may find it very hard to buy a boat. Others disagree.
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You’re actually getting testy because you’re a shop owner…who said anything about getting screwed? Shops that screw customers dont usually stay in business long so I’d say settle down with that. The two choices regarding that blem are, buy a brand new 2011 boat…or buy the blem 2007 boat that probably has no warranty now for only $150 less than the brand new one. That boat is way over priced and that’s why it’s been sitting there for 4 years getting picked over. I cant believe I have to explain that. Is the boat was say, $750…yeah thats a decent deal if it’s been stored properly. If the hull is twisted due to improper storage for the past 4 years then it’s worth $300. At the current price, nobody is buying that boat…it’s why it’s been there this long. If the shop owner took $700 they’d be making a little bit of money.
Warranty
From: http://www.wenonah.com/craftsmanship/warranty.php
All Wenonah Canoe products are warranted to the original owner against manufacturers’ defects in materials and workmanship for life.
I’m guessing you don’t know what a slipmark is.
I’d opt for a “new” 4 year old RX boat
Today’s brand new Royalex boats are very soft and get scratched up quickly from even normal use. They seem about as scratch resistant as a frozen stick of butter. With age they become tougher.
If there were two identical royalex hulls in the shop, I’d take the older one every time. And the good part is, you get a discount on the older one to boot. Win-win.
Local paddlesports shops are not
out to screw people. Actually many work on very little profit and lots of dedication and deserve our support
That said a four year old boat which looks like it was already discounted for a minor blem(that any paddler would do on trip one anyway) at the start may simply be wearing the same tag it was originally dressed with. A conversation opening with a further discount is not unreasonable, given the boat is not selling.(If it were an in demand boat I would not question the price much) Perhaps you need other equipment to go with the boat too and that you should pay full price for, if you get a nice discount on the boat.
(ie if we can do A, I will do B and C)
Act serious and respectful and you may well have a fruitful conversation. Many dealers offer discounts to members of local clubs or environmental associations.
Act like the dealer is a jerk and the talk ends.
I’m quite sympathetic to store owners
that sell paddle sports gear. I understand that big box stores and internet sales have made life very difficult for them and I try to support them whenever I can.
On the other hand, I would not consider an offer of $100 under asking price on a boat that has been sitting in a dealer’s inventory for nearly 5 years to be some type of grave insult, and if that store owner took it as one, and threw me out of his store, I would disseminate his name and my experience as widely as I possibly could, both locally and via the internet.
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I’m not sure, but I believe that when they mark a boat as a blem, the warranty disappears. You’d have to call them about that.
Eric, you’re reading way too far into what people are saying here…admit it…that boat needs to be marked down so it’s moved or it’ll sit there another 4 years. You’re taking things too personally being a shop owner, and not considering the customer. If it’s such a great deal, have the original poster let you know if they dont buy it so you can. So far I can gather that:
- You refuse to see the side of a customer.
- You’re combative and assume customers are devious and out to screw you out of profit.
- You’re proud of the fact that you kick people out of your shop just for looking for a good deal.
When shopping for any large purchase, you’re learning both about the product as well as the dealer. I believe I’ve learned to avoid your shop, as others probably have as well.
Dot,
You think Eric has to call Wenonah to learn whether a blem is covered under warranty? Are you serious?
It’s almost as though some people need to get out and paddle with more than their finger tips.
Ditto for dot
Eric has been kind enough to contribute here even when he will not make a penny out of the transaction. He has give us repair advice galore.
Its a waste of his time IMO to reply to that sort of drivel. If he does, he is far more tolerant than I am.
mjflores, take a chill pill, do some
research.
You do a lot of posting out of ignorance that denegrates other posters and you often the one that’s posting inaccurate information.
.
Seriously?
Ok, you people are insane. I give, you’re absolutely right…that boat has the perfect price tag on it. They should just mark the the 4 year old blems as the same price as a new 1st quality. How dare I suggest that it’s say there for 4 years going on five becuase it’s priced too high. It’s obviously just the wrong color or something else. Maybe adding $200 to the price will make it sell. And the poor old paddle sports shops…having to deal with such evil people trying to save a little money in this economy…lets applaud the idea of tossing customers out the door for even thinking of savings. Paddle Sports owners are the true unsung American Heros!..forget the veterans…lets support these men and women instead!
And Clarion, yakmedic, and yanwhatshisface…thankyou for all you do on this board, someday Obama will hopefully commission a monument in your honor for having no opinion of your own, and instead just seeking out and argueing with anyone who has a difference in opinion from your mentors.
Hows that, is everyone happy now?? Geeze.
I don’t see the logic here…
– Last Updated: Feb-27-11 12:44 PM EST –
... but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. From what I recall from previous years when markups on boats were discussed, you'd be asking the dealer to sell the boat at a loss at your price. There's no reason to expect him to sell it at a loss because the cost to the dealer of storing it is zero and the cost of having it on the books isn't so great that it must be sold "right now", so he can easily wait for someone willing to pay the asking price or something reasonably close to it. Even if you are right and the dealer would make just "a little money" at your offered price, the part that makes no sense to me is why you'd insist on bypassing a good deal just because you couldn't get it for a whole lot less, based on your belief that it should be worth so much less just for being older than the usual boat that's in stock. Supply and demand still rules and you've still got to find the boat you want somewhere at some price. Yours seems like an emotion-based reaction, not a logical one, for the simple reason that you wouldn't find a comparable discount on that same boat of any age in new condition unless you kept on the lookout for years. You'd rather wait years for the same kind of deal to come along on a newer boat just because the dealer won't practically give this boat away right now? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
I can see finding out if they'll let it go for $100 less, and but even then I'd show my appreciation by buying something else from the shop, if not that day, another time.
Boats sitting in stock is actually a common situation in some markets, where people are buying junk from big-box stores rather than better stuff from a real boat shop, and especially because of the popularity of rec kayaks, canoes are not easy to sell in some parts of the country, but since a boat in new condition is the same to me as any other, I wouldn't be a jerk about getting a steal of a deal instead of no deal at all.
Oh, who worries about how it was stored when the OP has already seen the boat and knows that it is in pristine condition? Royalex can be deformed, but you almost have to try to make it happen. At a boat shop, it will have spent its life on a rack, because efficient use of space is necessary. That's what boat shops do around here - store them on racks.
It’s not the difference of opinion
… it’s the tone. Not cool. You want to flail around arguing for arguments sake? You’re in luck. Pnet’s got an app for that. I’ll even join you. But the advice board isn’t the place.
See, no research on your part, or you
would know that I’ve had my disagreements with some of the “mentors” that you refer to that have posted in this thread.
It’s not uncommon for you your posts to appear to be argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative.
As to the price of the boat in the OP, if the blem is barely noticeable and has no impact whatsoever on the performance of the boat and it has been stored properly and has no warps, twists or WOWs and there is no better deal available, then $100 off of a boat that will be in worse shape after the 1st time it’s used, is still $100 off of retail. If the buyer wants a better deal, then they’ll look elsewhere.
As others have stated, the royalex, after 4 years of curing will now be more scratch resistant than when fresh. Maybe that should actually justify a premium, you know, like properly stored, aged wine.
My local dealers don’t haggle. They do sometimes have some sales.
I test paddled a royalex Vagabond once on a breezy day and it was much easier to handle in the wind and slight chop than a royalex Bell Yellowstone fiberglass Mad River Slipper were. It turned into and away from the wind easier than either of the other two boats. I was in a sitting position with a straight shaft paddle.
Have a great day.
A pretty heavy thread
But I wanted to add a couple things.
One, the boat may be brand new to the dealer. Wenonah has a large warehouse. I watch their blem list and an occasional old boat shows up from time to time. It’s like they find one tucked in a corner they didn’t know about. So it is possible this shop recently purchased this boat from Wenonah.
Two, remove the serial number plates, and the two boats will be indistinguishable. The Wenonah Vagabond has not changed at all. Given that older Royalex is preferred, an older boat is the better deal even if priced similarly.
Three, what if the dealer sells Vagabonds regularly? Perhaps this boat has been overlooked because all Vagabonds are the same and it just happens to have sat there for four years. When you are dealing with a large inventory, it’s quite possible that an older, but identical, model has stuck around. If the dealer sells Vagabonds, and just want’s this one to sell finally, then there is no motivation to deeply discount it because the dealer will have to turn around and purchase another boat to replace it.
While it has been suggested that this boat has sold for less throughout the history of it’s sale, it commonly is not sold at a discounted price. Finding a boat that fits your needs, is of solid construction, and comes from a friendly dealer who will offer years of support, is in my experience, a great value. That is before you take price into account. Add a discount into the equation and you are getting a deal.
Effects of age
In a car, seals dry up, technology improves, metal fatigues, and it becomes less fashionable. Old cars are worth less, both to buy and to resell.
A canoe, unused, will often appreciate. There are no moving parts, and, properly stored, they do not degrade in any way. Why would anyone expect to pay less for a canoe based on age alone? The new-old-stock canoe is every bit as good as the new from the manufacture in most cases. Of course there are exceptions when a company has vastly improved their composites, for example, but there are exceptions the other way too (I’m thinking Vermont era Mad River for example).
I prefer buying used canoes, so if I don’t like them, I can sell them without much of a loss. When I find a boat I know I want, and it isn’t available used, I realize I must pay the new price. The sweetness of quality is remembered long after the bitterness of price, to turn an old axiom around.