Seems I lost my 4-yr. old Werner Kalliste CF bent-shaft paddle the other day. I’m pretty sure it’s gone. I’m bummed.
So - replacement paddle time I guess. I could go with another Werner Kalliste - I really liked it and it worked well for me. But, there is also the money-saving option of going with a Camano CF, or perhaps the Camano fiberglass (which doesn’t seems to weigh much more than the CF version). I live a long way from any stores so this will be an internet buy. I don’t know anyone that has a Camano so I can’t check one out beforehand.
Opinions on the Kalliste vs. Camano CF vs. Camano glass, all in bentshaft?
Thanks very much,
Doug
Werner…
I have the Kalliste BS and old Camano FG SS and I like them both. The difference is in the blade. I feel the Camano has a stronger catch and more power especially at a higher angle. If playing in conditions I prefer the Camano although on entry it is much noisier than the Kalliste.
If just touring or sneaking up on fish while trolling, the Kalliste is what I take as it is really a joy to use.
I find I use the Kalliste much more but have considered getting a bent carbon Camano if it wasn’t for the entry (kerplop) noise.
is the flotation aspect real?
I’m also wondering if I will notice the difference between the Kalliste and the Camano relative to the foam core paddle on the Kalliste. I’ve been paddling with my wife’s Mid Swift glass paddle and heck - I can’t feel any difference in terms of the paddle blade bobbing back up to the surface at the end of the stroke. Is it noticeable during a roll or while bracing/sculling? I’m just wondering if the foam core paddle thing is more marketing than real benefit.
Difficult to equate…
As one is bent shaft and the Camano is straight and FG. I greatly prefer the straight shaft when playing or rolling as it is more difficult for me to get the bent shaft oriented.
Maybe a good time to call Pat at Onno…
flotation aspect real?
My main Euro paddle is an Epic Full Carbon Active Tour (foam core blades) my back-up is a Mid-Swift. I can feel the additional boyancy of the Epic blades.
I cannot say if it makes a difference rolling, bracing, sculling. It might make the biggest difference on distance paddles as it feels like less swing weight.
Yes, it makes a slight difference
The foam core paddles do not have the spine on the back that the non-foam ones do. This feature makes for very quiet and smooth low braces,low brace turns and reverse strokes. Is it worth the extra $ ? - you decide.
~wetzool
Kerplop
The Camano kerplop is starting to bug me, I guess from reading this thread it may not be only my lack of form. Also as the season goes on and I pull on the blades harder I’m feeling this subtle ripping sensation which is bubbles peeling away from the blade. Can’t seem to get the blade in the water cleanly enough to eliminate that completely.
I’ve read the Mitchell Black Magic is noted for a very quiet entry, trying to talk myself out of getting one.
Mike
Camano vs Kalliste - my recollections:
I used them both, one right after the other, at Rutabaga a couple weeks ago and the main difference / perception that I remember is that it felt like the Kalliste flexed more during the forward stroke. The Rutabaga employee suggested that what I was feeling was more likely the bouyancy of the foam core Kalliste popping the blade up at the end of the stroke rather than blade flex.
I percieved the different feeling as flex. From that limited comparison, I preferred the feel of the Camano. I have no idea which I’d prefer after using them for a few hours.
Cyprus, straight shaft, 215
that’s the tool you want right there.
Huh?
210
My Werner Cyprus is a 210 but, yeah it is a really nice paddle for me.
Have to agree - sweet ! - NM
I own a few Werners…
– Last Updated: Aug-18-06 9:43 PM EST –
Shuna 210cm st shaft fiberglass
Shuna 215cm st shaft fiberglass
Corryvreken 220 cm st shaft fiberglass
Camano 220 cm bent shaft all carbon
My favorite... all of them, but I must say the Camano is great for long distances and a low paddle angle. The low paddle angle, its intended use, is key though... it really performs poorly for a high angle style due to blade design. The Corryvreken is probably my best high angle paddle, as the blade is generous and the scoop is perfect and I enjoy it. The Shunas I use for narrower boats (21 inch). All eBay purchases, which steadily has a nice series of Werners, just keep your eyes out.
To address part of your question yet untouched in this thread: the fiberglass that you mention, and like the ones I own, are very light indeed... it is sort of a translucent weave fiberglass that is attractive and functional. I find the fiberglass to be a tad more forgiving with a very subtle flex in the water on power strokes, that is gentler on the arms and elbows and wrists. It is not so flexy as to lose any appreciable power. The carbon is about 3 ounces lighter, not as "pretty" looking, and is very stiff on the joints. I think I would tend more toward bent shaft with a carbon paddle to offset the stiffness on the old joints in the arms, but a straight shaft likely adequate for teh fiberglasses. Perhaps the paddler above is correct that a straight shaft is more natural for rolling--I am not a roller and would not know. There is no doubt, compared to some of the other paddles I own, like my Aquabound Expedition Carbon, the indexed ferrule on the Werners not only gives plenty of feather degree choices, but they are very sturdy with no annoying play whatsoever.
Note that the Werner Shuna Carbon is the best selling, most popular carbon high angle paddle sold by Werner, according to their own website.
http://www.wernerpaddles.com/paddles/shuna.html
The Corryvrecken--my favorite high angle Werner--is for sale from The River Connection, a company I have successfully bought gear from, run by Marshall from P-net, very honest, 100% feedback, very good seller:
http://tinyurl.com/jhd4e
http://www.wernerpaddles.com/paddles/corryvrecken.html
http://www.wernerpaddles.com/paddles/camanoc.html
Note that the Camano was the Dec 2005 Readers Choice by Sea kayaker Magazine (scroll down):
http://www.seakayakermag.com/2005/Dec05/2005Readers_Choice4.htm
A paddling partner, Bruce, has a new Werner Ikelos all carbon and seems to like it; he has a very high angle paddle stroke. Bruce, chime in here on thoughts.
http://www.wernerpaddles.com/paddles/ikelosc.html
Hope this was helpful. Ciao, ragazzo.
PS All this said, I am in talks with Patrick at ONNO about buying a couple of his paddles as primaries. Go figure. Soon I'll have as many paddles as sing.
thanks - great responses …
Now I’m re-examining my assumptions about using a low-angle paddle in the first place. I’ve done both high and low angle paddling in the past, but had recently started going to a low angle stroke to see if there was a real difference over several hours. Not sure if I even know. That Cyprus looks pretty nice…
ONNO Paddles
– Last Updated: Aug-18-06 12:18 PM EST –
http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/index.cfm?
If you're considering the $400+ Cyprus, you really ought to save yourself some significant cash, over one hundred dollars cheaper, and get the super light and custom built ONNO paddle. I have used one from yanoer and it was/is superb! It is 25 ounces or so also, with custom blades. Check out the website.
Smooth back also helps a smoother
entry and pull-through.
I’m still a big onno fan though
Thanks again guys for the support
If considering an onno, please know they work perfectly for both high AND low angle paddling.
IMO, Werner is stuck in their ways when it comes to this high / low thing which is an issue they created for themselves … again IMO.
But wish I WAS Werner … LOL.
The rib on my paddles is ‘hidden’ behind the ‘wings’ or shoulders of the blade … not pronounced or ‘in the wind’ as the Swift / Werners are.
NOOOOO!!!
Please don’t become a Werner! We all like the service, quality and craftsmanship we get from you! Big companies can’t even come close. Lovin’ my Big Boy!
Bob