Good thread
A lot of this is your “working relationship” with your partner, which will develop over time.
I’ve used the same instructor for 3 years and we work well together. Even from the beginning I always felt very safe.
What he does that works well/reassures me during rolling instruction. As mentioned upthread, he’s on stable ground about belly button high, on my offside. I attempt to roll, and blow it. I let go of my paddle (armpit wedge), and he takes my hands and places them in his. I can’t emphasize that part enough: it’s not that I flail around and try to find his hands, he’s proactive and puts my hands in his. He then braces his arms and I use this to hip snap up as I would from a bow rescue.
Part of this is me being calm enough to relax and go jelly-armed so he can put my hands in his. This was never a problem for me because the first lesson we ever had he made me do 20 wet exits in a row (I had done it before, but was still a little shy). Ever since then, I’ve always been incredibly calm underwater.
this reminds me
of being at symposium and getting rolling instruction from an instructor standing in the water. About the same except he told me to just keep my hands on the paddle. When I couldn’t roll up, he just grabbed the shaft and lifted me up.
Great
and simple® idea.
it got better
…once I learned a roll (or thought I had!), he stood beside me and told me to loosen my grip. Then he took my paddle and dropped it just beyond my reach, and had me hand-paddle to the paddle and then roll up.
Digesting…
Lots of good suggestions here to study. Thanks very much.
I have practiced wet exits in the pool with El Cheapo skirt. Never a concern because it comes off so easily. I can hang on to my paddle with one hand while removing the skirt with the other. But I don’t like it or the lousy release handle (not a loop but a flat piece of plastic) and am using it as a temporary solution when I paddle with my GP. If a wave dumped on my lap, that skirt would collapse
I use a high angle stroke with my Cyprus, which still has its drip rings, but it’s a pretty dry ride compared to the stick.
On the other hand, I do like the Seals nylon stretch skirt. I had it somewhat tamed by the end of last summer, but never attempted a wet exit for lack of a safety. I used it at home, never on Lake Michigan. The skirt was warm and dry all winter, so it was back to square one this spring. I’ll try some of the suggestions tonight (upright). Last summer I tried pushing up with my knees - all I did was stretch the material. Storing it (wet) on my cockput has relaxed it, so if I can pull off a couple of supervised wet exits with that skirt, I’d use it more often. Will also take it to the June symposium and have it checked for fit.
As to getting another skirt, I’ve read some of the older threads on fitting sprayskirts to cockpits. While we have plenty of water up here, it’s a desert when it comes to outfitters so there’s really no option to haul my boat to an outfitter and try on skirts. I guess it would be like buying clothing online; if it doesn’t fit, send it back and get the next size. I also wonder if Seals could replace the rand with a longer one. It’s stretch nylon, so why not? But I’ve no idea how to estimate how much additional length would be needed.
Easy to get skirts adjusted
Snapdragon will do the same as Seals, these are all small companies. Sometimes it just needs to be messed with for a certain coaming.
Send them a tracing of the coaming with the skirt and tell them the issue - too tight, too loose whatever - and they can try swapping out the bungie for a thicker or thinner one. If that doesn’t work, find a good home for the skirt from hell and get one for yourself that is easy to live with.
By the way, I hope you are misspeaking and what you have is a bungie not a rand. A true rand is a sticky rubber lining that really only belongs on a white water boat. Or on the boat of a salt water type who does a lot of surf. They are sticky and too hard to get off for typical touring use.
The reason that you have to be able to get a skirt off with one hand is that a proper deck is stretchy, so it won’t just pop off as easily as a stiff nylon surface. That grab loop has to pull it, and as I said the other hand needs to be hanging onto your paddle. (Foot/leg stays inside the boat since you have temporarily occupied all your hands and you still need to stay attached.)
Bungie it must be
as it’s a touring skirt. Didn’t know the difference in terminology before. Thanks!
Will contact Seals.
another suggestion
Cold hands can make things hard to grab securely. Some people add something to the spray skirt grab loop to make gripping easier; I have a big wooden bead on mine but have seen tennis and whiffle balls. I’ve also seen them wrapped in hose so that they’re rigid and stand up.
Double grab loop
on the Seals skirt, bright orange, always flops out, and has a buckle on the loop so you can attach it to your PFD strap and not trip over it. It would be perfect if it was a bit looser.
Measured tonight and the rim that extends past the actual coaming is 1 1/4" wide in front, an inch on the sides and back. No way would I ever get that off the front with one hand at present nor can I pull it off from the behind. Leaning doesn’t help. The grab loop has to be pushed forward, lifted, and pulled back over the front rim. I can do that upright.
While I don’t have the strength of a guy, I can easily squat and lift my boat from the water while standing on my dock and place it on the boat stands. If I’m wearing a drysuit, I’ll just stand in the water and lift the boat up on the dock and (low) stands.
However, and this is something I never tried before, using both hands I can grab the fabric and pull the skirt open at the side. Progress.
Sooo - how do you hang onto the paddle?
This is not trivial - if you capsize in the real thing the first thing you will need once you are upright is the paddle to manage the boat and avoid another capsize. There is likely going to be zero time to get things sorted out while you figure out which way to turn the boat.
So don’t make primary any skirt solutions that would cause you to lose the paddle. That can be keeping the paddle in one hand while you bring it under the boat to pull the skirt, or trapping it securely under an armpit, but it has to be something that works. One handed skirt release leaves you the most paddle-securitization options.
Yikes
I think you're working way too hard to make a square peg fit into a round hole. Just get another spray skirt. My neoprene snapdragon was $99 and is just dandy. Like Celia said, you really want to be able to do a simple pull of that loop so that you can keep a hand free for your paddle and maneuvering. And I don't think I'd want my loop connected to my PFD (and that must be the world's longest loop?!?!).
Reading this thread is making me nervous for you!
All this
sounds like an awful lot of work to get a skirt off. I think I’d rather plunk down a little for a new looser (yet still sufficiently watertight) skirt.
I learned to roll in a skirt that was actually baggy around the coaming but tight around my torso. Never really took on any water.
Loop buckle is attached
to the PFD only when you’re on dry land and don’t want the skirt flapping between your legs.
Oh
Oh ok I understand. I still strongly recommend you get a better fitting skirt. I don’t want to be reading about you in the news one day.
Well, I didn’t try it
with one hand. I can do that tomorrow since I’m stuck here because of unexpected house guests (who are going to act as my safety people). I’ll also put them to work trying to tip me over from the stern so I can finally get some bracing practice in. I have two extra boats, so maybe I’ll even get them on the water.
I do plan to contact Seals to replace the bungee with a longer one. That will cost less than buying a different brand with no guarantee I wouldn’t run into the same fit issue.
Maybe my GP would stay secure in my armpit, but my Cyprus sure doesn’t. Last summer during re-entry practice in Lake Michigan, I was certain I had that paddle in my armpit while I was trying to empty my boat until I looked to the right and saw it floating away. My fiberglass paddle was heavier and I could feel it. Not so with the Cyprus. Will try with the GP this week, before the lake lice and power boats arrive.
In the interim, El Cheapo works. Used it tonight
Not to worry, sonnyjane,
but I do have another skirt (El Cheapo) which serves its purpose so long as I don’t have any rogue waves wind up in my lap.
Maybe thinner not longer
I had the opposite issue on a skirt and Snapdragon installed a thicker bungie (Plastic old WW boat).
And yeah, as you already found out those foam core paddles like to escape. I am personally skeptical about the armpit option for them and prefer a hand because of that. But there is always a chance someone can make it work.
My last wet exit experience !
In the Florida Keys on the back side of Bahia Honda a few years ago.
Years ago I took a roll class, and the last day of the class I had it down pretty good, but never used it since I wasn’t interested in rolling.
I decided I should get back to it, in case I ever needed it.
I had Derek Hutchinson’s book as a refresher, and one of the things he said was: “once you are up side down, don’t hurry it. Take your time, look around and then get yourself set up”.
I did exactly as he said, and as I was looking around in the crystal clear water, here came a large shark right toward me.
I immediately did the best wet exit that any one has ever done and just about walked on water to the shore!
Maybe some day I’ll try a roll again — In a pool !
Jack L
great story
but I think I’d rather roll than swim with a shark coming at me!
Different skirts for different boats
Rookie, nothing wrong with multiple sprayskirts. You may someday own another kayak that the too-tight skirt will fit. Or not, and sell it. I have two different sizes of the identical Seals skirt for the two boats I use a lot, plus one mistake, plus one El Cheapo, and a couple of Greenland summer skirts. You never know when a spare will come in handy – as with paddles. The more the better! Until people suspect you have a “problem.”