@SeaDart said:
" I haven’t read through all the posts …but " … “you need a windbreaker with a wetsuit in 50% air”This site has become hopeless with misinformation.
Just have to shrug and move on. This “debate” plays out over and over on this site. People know what they know but also think they know what they don’t know.
sing
@sing said:
Ok. I hear you. But, even with the “best” gear, nothing is 100%.I don’t know the statics of it, but I think I am actually more likely to die pedaling to work than going out paddling.
50% of the people in the US die from heart disease, cancer, or lung disease. For people over 40, accidents come in 4th. So eat right, exercise, don’t smoke, and pray for good genes.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php
In 2017, the Coast Guard reported 138 deaths involving canoes and kayaks.
http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2017.pdf
In 2016, there were 204 cycling deaths - I would have thought that number would be higher. So Sing, you are not more likely to die in a bike accident, but you are more likely to get in an accident involving a serious injury.
By comparison, 33K people died in car crashes and 14K people died from opioid overdoses.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/overview/key_data.html
So the most dangerous thing we do every day is get in the car and drive.
@eckilson said:
@sing said:
http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2017.pdf
In 2016, there were 204 cycling deaths - I would have thought that number would be higher. So Sing, you are not more likely to die in a bike accident, but you are more likely to get in an accident involving a serious injury.
By comparison, 33K people died in car crashes and 14K people died from opioid overdoses.
https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/overview/key_data.html
So the most dangerous thing we do every day is get in the car and drive.
Thanks for the numbers. Mark another one in there.
Godspeed, James.
sing
Car stats to me are skewed because so many people drive like complete idiots. They take innocent people with them but I’d say A-holes die more frequently.
@MCImes said:
Here’s a guide from O’neill wetsuits.
Personally, I think its recommendations are generally ok for the warmer end of each range specified, but near the colder end, IMO, their recommendation would leave you cold and I personally would go with the next thicker suit for warmth.
the pacific around me is ~65° and I am comfortable in a 4/3 full wetsuit. I figure it could get a few degrees colder before I switch over to my drysuit.
I think all the blue columns are off. For me anyway, I’d be cold if I swam dressed like that. Pretty questionable that they recommend it this way. Purple column is quite ridiculous as far as I am concerned.
But the best way is to test for yourself in a controlled environment such as a bathtub (add ice if your tap water is not cold enough). I wouldn’t just trust the manufacturer, especially in colder water.
YMMV. Wearing a hooded 5/4 for three hours of winter paddle surfing with air temps in the upper teens and water temp around 40. Never felt cold until it was time to change out. That is another story… (Hint - have the car warmed up and blasting the heat, use a changing pancho, stand on a 2x2’ piece of carpet square. Also, keep hot water in 2 gallon bottles stored in a flexible insulated cooler, covered with your towels while you surf.)
Season’s first winter-like surf session comes tomorrow and Friday. 
PS. Use silicone grease on all exposed skin areas to prevent frostbite!
sing
At my barnicle covered rocky and boulder strewn homebreak, a drysuit can be a hazard. On bigger days, a good breaking wave can drive you under and tumble you along the bottom. A ripped drysuit would be extremely dangerous, if one paddle surfs alone or with a few, like I often do in the winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plhRFfZ4xwc
sing
The statistic quoted for bicycling deaths seems low. I know several locations within 10 miles of me where people have been killed in bicycling accidents. I know of only a handful of fatal kayaking accidents in California in recent history.
@sing
“Hmmm… Maybe going of business. The female model grabbed a left over drysuit for a guy…? .
…It says “uni-sex” but the design clearly favors the male function. Just saying…”
FUD.
Except for my most recent Idol suit design I have always gotten a Kokatat Unisex with a dropped pzip. More recently gravity started winning the argument here and there. But the curves in the women’s suits have tended to be more so than my own, and the leg and arm length in the unisex small is spot on.
Like Willowleaf, I’ve made a lot of use of the Farmer John, separate top option. One of the biggest strengths of the Farmer Jane/John is that there’s no wetsuit wrapped around your arms, and when your goal is paddling, that freedom of movement is really nice. One of the biggest weaknesses of the Farmer Jane/John, is that each opening in a wetsuit is an area where water can flush through. And an NRS Farmer John/Jane is like a tanktop. Instead of the ends of your sleeves at your wrists, and a snug fitting neck opening, being the only areas where water can flush in, you have a huge area for water to flush. If you add a top over your Farmer Jane/John, you’re back down to just your wrists and neck. When kayaking, you want the flushing protection from the top down. You don’t want to feel a fresh trickle of water through your suit with every wave you paddle through. That’s why the long-sleeved top over the Farmer Jane/John, and not the Farmer Jane/John over the top. You haven’t sealed off the openings for flushing into the Jane/John unless the top is over the top of the Jane/John. Obvious when you think about it, but I learned this through experience.
A couple of surf magazines rated O’Neill’s Technobutter 3 as the most flexible wetsuit material for 2018. Now I understand from reading a little about it that there has been some give and take between flexibility and warmth over the years regarding wetsuit material - more flexible, less warmth given the thickness, but some of this stuff like Technobutter 3 does a really good job of both warmth and flexibility - always working to bridge that gap. .
Have you tried this stuff? I have. Pretty amazing compared to the first wetsuits I bought. A proper fitting, skin tight 3mm Hyperfreak full suit, and my arms and shoulders don’t feel inhibited. It’s really good stuff.
I also have a Hyperfreak 1.5 mm longsleeve top that I pull on over a 3mm NRS Ultra John. And I’ll wear a paddle jacket over it on a windy or cooler air day. That ends up with fairly thick neoprene around your torso, but just the 1.5 mm very flexible top to keep your shoulders and arms from feeling inhibited.
A Rip Curl Ebomb Pro top is also made with some of the most flexible material out there - they call their’s E5.
Regarding Old Yakker’s comments, I’d really hate to see someone forgo a wetsuit, being all they can afford at the moment, because they don’t think it will add protection in cold water. “I wear a Kokatat dry bib and anorak and, I stay dry as a powdered babies bottom. You get what you pay for.”. This is very personal and situational. It is rare that I’m not wet from sweat getting out of my drysuit, but possible on a relaxed paddling day. Old Yakker’s staying dry has little to nothing to do with getting what you pay for, and more to do with a person’s activity. Kokatat’s dry suits don’t keep you dry if you’re dressed warm enough, and working hard enough, to work up a good athletic sweat. You’ll just be wet underneath. The bigger question I would have, is given the use of a bib and not a full dry suit, how much swimming out of the kayak is done while remaining powder dry? I would think I would want to be wearing neoprene underneath if doing a life/death swim in a bib suit/anorak combo. It looks like it probably mates the same as my dry pants/dry top combo, which can be pretty good. But a drysuit with fluff on underneath, and even a small leak during an extended swim can be catastrophic.
Haven’t read these replies, but if it hasn’t been said already, a wetsuit will keep you much warmer if it is actually wet all the way. You can become quite chilly in a dry wetsuit on a cold day. I think I’d also add a windbreaker top of some sort.
@Nery said:
Haven’t read these replies
Then how do you expect your comments to take the existing discussion into account?
And why would anyone pay attention to what you think if you can’t be bothered to do the same for others?
@Sparky961 said:
@Nery said:
Haven’t read these repliesThen how do you expect your comments to take the existing discussion into account?
And why would anyone pay attention to what you think if you can’t be bothered to do the same for others?
Hope you are enjoying your weekend Sparky. My comments were based on close to four decades of wearing wetsuits, and I knew basically what the discussion was about, and was merely offering possibly a point that had not been addressed, but if it had, simply restating it. If people were following all the comments then they could take it as a new point, or simply move on. Myself being quite happy with the current selection of wetsuits I own didn’t personally feel like I needed any changes, but could possibly offer an easily overlooked point to the paddlers on here that weren’t completely wet like say surfers or divers are. Pretty simple really. Real bummer the internet offends so easily. Again hope you have a great weekend, and if you celebrated Thanksgiving I hope you had some great family time.
@Nery said:
Real bummer the internet offends so easily.
You mistake my calling out of your hubris for taking offence. At least you admit to it, which is more than can be said for many.
It isn’t hubris Sparky, it’s conservation of words, which actually I have gotten away from by trying to break it down for you, which I feel is probably a futile effort. Sorry to everyone else for the short hijack The Sparkester and I took.
My attention span for such things is short. I give you the last words, as mine also fall on deaf ears.
@Nery said:
Haven’t read these replies, but if it hasn’t been said already, a wetsuit will keep you much warmer if it is actually wet all the way. You can become quite chilly in a dry wetsuit on a cold day. I think I’d also add a windbreaker top of some sort.
This is bogus. A dry wetsuit is warmer than a soaked one. Even though any water inside the suit gets warmed up BY YOUR OWN BODY HEAT, it is merely taking that heat FROM your body in the process. It does not stay warm without your body stoking it. Whether your body suffers from the loss during your outing depends on several things. Body temp averages roughly 98 degrees (not necessarily 98.6 as has long been stated). Water temp when people bother to wear immersion clothing is far below that.
Your body is heating the wetsuit regardless whether it is heating water inside or relatively dry fabric inside. But the soaked inside is not warmer than a dry one
CapeFear, I prefer to wear a 1 or 1.5mm longsleeve neo top UNDER a longlegged Farmer Jane. This prevents the neck and wrist flush-through, and both garments fit tightly enough that neither gets flooded with water. This is my go-to combo for cool water.
For colder water, either a full wetsuit (sometimes with a very tight but thin neo tanktop underneath) or a drysuit works well. Fullsuit with integral hood is better than a nonhooded one, but I agree that neither feels as “free” as the FJ combo or the drysuit.
I might wear a windproof layer over the FJ combo, but the fullsuits have windproofed chest panels built in.
@Nery said:
It isn’t hubris Sparky, it’s conservation of words, which actually I have gotten away from by trying to break it down for you, which I feel is probably a futile effort. Sorry to everyone else for the short hijack The Sparkester and I took.
So to avoid wasting your time on checking if your message adds anything new to the thread, you just put it out there, and then it is up to us to potentially waste our time reading duplicate advice.
In other words: Your time is more important than ours.
Thank you for the clear notification.
I have an 8 mm wetsuit collecting dust somewhere. It’s next to useless for paddling at that thickness and not as warm as an aggressively layered drysuit. I bought it on sale but after 10 min in a cold bath water it became apparent that it’s was a no go. The water was 6 C, which is late Oct-Early November around here. This temp I can do with aggressive layering to the point that I am fairly comfortable floating around (not something I recommend though). It gets bulky but still a good range of motion to paddle a surfski which requires more mobility than a sea kayak.
