Seam is like current Designs used for years until recently. Doubt it is adding any performance. CD glasses the inside seam also.
No, the hull/deck seam is not like CD used–at least not on any l’ve ever seen. On NC kayaks the flange protrudes about a half inch. Like most seams, the NC seam can be glass taped inside and outside if you like. In no way do I speak for NC, but I believe they would tell you that taping the seam would be redundant, but these are essentially custom built boats, so…
Anyway, the “performance” aspect of the flange is mostly with reference to the overall stiffness it adds to the boat. Still, believe it, or not, the flange does indeed function as a spray rail. And after nearly a decade of experience of paddling my Expedition in bumpy water, the flange really does seem to aid in lifting the bow when paddling at some velocity into waves–both slamming into waves and while surfing and overtaking waves. Burying the bow is rare and recovery is so quick that broaching is not an issue.
Carrying a spare paddle? Come on man; you can put any kind of deck rigging on the boat you want. I seldom ever carry a spare paddle, but if I choose to, I can stick a two piece 230 inside the rear compartment. I also have a four piece that I think will fit in the bow compartment. I don’t like cluttering up the deck, but I have occasionally carried a “stick” on the front, or back deck.
@magooch said:
I seldom ever carry a spare paddle, but if I choose to, I can stick a two piece 230 inside the rear compartment. I also have a four piece that I think will fit in the bow compartment.
I always carry a spare paddle on even short trips. It is always accessible from the cockpit. It is also accessible if I inadvertently capsize and lose my primary paddle. Different strokes for different folks, but I do need a paddle for the strokes. Perhaps I am too conservative.
I believe we have successfully sidetracked the original discussion.
Post a picture of rail please.
It’s all part of the hull designs.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Post a picture of rail please.It’s all part of the hull designs.
What is this “rail” you speak of?
Seam, rail, performance flange, your dinner! Lol
Your did sent me a picture once of your kayak no clue where to find it on my computer.
Fair enough, Dog–I did refer to the flange as a spray rail. I’m not good at this, so maybe my attempt to post a picture will be a complete failure. Here goes nothing. Yay, it worked. Zoom the picture a little, or concentrate at the bow and you’ll get the idea.
Ok I see it at the bow. Is it rubber or a hard plastic? Thanks
The black cover is the replaceable vinyl rub strip that covers the flange. The flange is just part of the hull and deck. In the mold, the flanges are much wider. I assume they are trimmed to the finished size (3/8–1/2") prior to assembling the hull and deck. A bead of glue is spread on the hull, or deck flange and the whole thing is clamped together for curing. Of course, that is after the bulkheads are in place. The bulkheads similarly are molded with a flange which also receives a bead of glue. They used to use Plexus industrial cement which is supposed to have a tensile strength of 3000 lbs. per square inch. I don’t know if they still use the same glue, or if they have switched to something else.
All this talk about the NC seam yet we had one poster say his leaked like crazy and NC wouldn’t stand behind the boat. Doesn’t sound good to me. Plus why does NC put such tiny hatch openings on there boats? Guess they never camped out of there boats. Small hatch openings suck big time when loading and unloading. .This one guy I know has an old Seda Glider which had tiny hatch openings, he has to use all tiny dry bags and have strings attached to pull the bags out, what a pita. (new Seda has large openings now).
I think NC flange makes the need for precision fit between hull and deck less of a requirement. Glue, trim, and install rub rail and you will not see any waves down the side of hull as easy. Right angle flange would add some stiffness to the hull. A seam that is glassed also adds stiffness especially if it’s inside and out.
@Rookie said:
@PaddleDog52 said:
Where is there a picture of the performance flange? ThanksHere’s a photo of one of their kayaks, but I can’t figure out where the performance flange is. With its minimal deck rigging, trying to figure out how you could carry a spare paddle.
Deck lines to the bow and stern are also good to grab if you’re in the water or trying to stabilize a kayak next to you from yours. Paddle float rescue seems it would be harder for some with lack of deck lines. They do offer optional straps for paddle float rescue. The rubber seam looks wavy up and down. The hatch does look tiny even on the 19’ front hatch and day hatch are the same I think. They have engineered a lot of cost savings in the kayaks, no rudder or skeg, small deck hatches, glued seam with rubber trim, yakima foot braces, less deck lines. Glassed seams inside and out I think add a good bit of labor to get the finish right especially on the outside.
These boats are definitely throwbacks to the early ‘90’s (or even earlier). The fact that they aren’t willing to invest in retooling for modern kayak-specific hatches would give me pause. It also looks like none of their 17’ boats have front bulkheads and one appears to have no bulkheads, which is a safety hazard as well as being a major inconvenience for loading gear. Skimpy deck rigging just adds to the safety concerns. The “skeggy” hull doesn’t bode well for maneuverability. Having owned a Nordkapp HM with a similar hull design, I wouldn’t go there again.
That said, they’re on sale at $1000 off in-stock boats, if you don’t mind buying a 30-year-old design that has never been updated.
I wonder why tandem kayaks need extra width . I know storage is one reason. Does a tandem need the width to be stable with two people? For instance if I took my Current Designs Solstice 24" beam and stretched it to 22’ would it be as stable as the single Solstice? It would be faster no or does tandem need some width for the extra weight if two and possible gear to keep draft shallower for performance?
As PaddleDog says–different strokes for different folks. I am not a camper, so I wouldn’t know how much stuff I could cram into my Expedition and don’t care. By the way, I wouldn’t trade the hatches on my boat for any other type I’ve ever seen
As for the company standing behind their product, I can only speak from my personal experience and that of some others I’m aware of. I’m lucky to live only about 80 miles from the manufacturer and they have been more than generous with anything I’ve needed and fortunately that hasn’t been much. In fairness to the company, I will not relate what I do know about how far NC has gone to make things right for some who have had things happen to their boats that had nothing to do with quality of build. NC is a very small builder and only sells factory direct. They ship their boats all over the country, but I think most of the boats are concentrated regionally around the Northwest. As a kayaker, I’m very thankful there are such builders that has provided me with a fantastic boat. I’m lucky enough to be able to have any boat I want and if I had it to do all over, I’d still choose the NC Expedition.
“All this talk about seams” on my part was a simple courtesy to PaddleDog52 who had some questions.
@bnystrom said:
These boats are definitely throwbacks to the early ‘90’s (or even earlier). The fact that they aren’t willing to invest in retooling for modern kayak-specific hatches would give me pause. It also looks like none of their 17’ boats have front bulkheads and one appears to have no bulkheads, which is a safety hazard as well as being a major inconvenience for loading gear. Skimpy deck rigging just adds to the safety concerns. The “skeggy” hull doesn’t bode well for maneuverability. Having owned a Nordkapp HM with a similar hull design, I wouldn’t go there again.That said, they’re on sale at $1000 off in-stock boats, if you don’t mind buying a 30-year-old design that has never been updated.
Sorry, but you are wrong about the 17’-2" models. Even the 15’-8" models have bulkheads. Some models do not have front hatches–I guess for folks who don’t want them.
You should call Doug Searles at NC Kayaks and talk to him about his “30 year old design”; he might be interested in your critique.
thanks for the insight magooch
Just curious If the boat doesn’t have a front hatch I must assume there is no bulkhead? If it has a bulkhead but not hatch what if water leaks in, How would you drain it. You cant there for it must not have a bulkhead which I assume also was what bynstrom was referring to not have a front bulkhead. I know I assumed a lot here.