this is the sort of thing they
teach in BCU training, in addition to the high tea ceremony.
If youâre interested in how to manage group dynamics and want training seek out a BCU coach and get some training.
What rivers do they teach on?
for rivers, in the us
youâre more likely to run into ACA training. I would suggest seeking them out.
But the BCU definitely has a river kayaking component.
BCUNA.com
aca.net
honesty
it looks like a good policy. When I was a part of BASK what ended up were a bunch of self-selected group paddles,it was a little like highschool,fun though,
Pre-Launch Discussions?
Some of the suggestions seem to rely on a fair amount of shared communication or commonly held assumptions prior to the launch. Iâm curious about responses on handling things if a few specifics are added to the given scenario - it seems that the following details would start making that more difficult.
- The paddling is restricted to flat rivers with perhaps some current in the spring but no dimensional or white water. Shore is reasonably nearby for a decent swimmer - not within 10 feet but always within 50 ft. Water temps are not so cold that a dash to the shore and quick clothing change wouldnât get in front of hypothermia concerns for the vast majority of individuals. (Some number of paddlers in the group regularly carry emergency clothes or blanket.)
- There are broadly three groups.
First - A core group that arrives early or on time, knows each othersâ skills, and includes the more skilled paddlers as well as those with the fastest boats and best forward strokes. Mostly expedition kayaks, but some doubles in a canoe.
Second - Paddlers with lesser and less known skills, slower boats but some decent time on flat water overall. They have enough time in to want to keep up with the lead group, but donât have reliable experience in handling problems. Usually kayaks, often mid-length transition boats.
There is a leader and sweep assigned to the first two combined.
Third - Newbies, often in brand new or borrowed boats, very slow. This group has its own leader and usually makes no attempt to do more than putter around near shore at a comfortably slow pace. A lot of rec yaks.
- The club tends to enforce the launch time strictly, so there is almost always someone putting into the water at the last minute. Instructions and leaders are done on the water.
- Some people like to paddle really really fast, especially the first group with the better rescue skills. A pod of them could go on ahead and be just fine themselves.
So - does this impact any of the above suggestions?
Thanks, Celia
What are your resources?
â Last Updated: Mar-19-05 11:59 AM EST â
If I am on a big Big trip with five or more "leaders",i like Diamond form with main leader at center #2 at rear point fast paddler between paddlers and rocks even with leader. four only loose at the outside middle point of the diamond. If only two:leaders front and rear. Front leader must turn around often, and or have radio out of any pocket and on. Really any leader except sweep must turn around often.
In resource rich situations the "leader" should not be involved with rescues unless absolutely needed. She is the paddler looking to see that the others who might get in trouble are facing into the waves, rafted up etc, she is looking out for boat traffic, checking the distance between the rescue and the rocks. etc.
Sometimes competant paddlers are willing to be resources even though the are not official leaders.
Channel crossings? Boats perpendicular to the channel with all paddlers even. Adjust perpendicularity for ferry angle but the idea is the same. Obstruct as little of the channel as possible, in dimensions of space and time.
Thanks to Jed Brian and the many other NSPN paddlers who have given me a place to experiment and helped me learn.
That was just one
of the things that came up when we formed a safety committee. One member was all for any new, unknown paddler to demonstrate a wet exit before the trip started. We thought that, while somewhat in aggrement, to do so in winter would be over the top. We posted a set of skill requirements on our web site for memeber to review and to give them some goals. We also had 1 safety session and will repear that this year to try and teach the basic skills. It seems like a fine line to tread to not discourage new paddlers yet still welcome them into the fold.
Joe
My age notwithstanding
whippersnapper, that was a good trip.
Randy did do a good job even with the delay at lunch that really broke up our group forcing a segregated crossing of a public ferry lane. I can still make his jaw tight by mentioning that one. That was the trip that opened our eyes to the necessity of radios. Later that year we had some on the Missouri. This winter the club purchased our own. Everything Iâm reading here seems to be on the same lines that he used on this trip so we should be on the right track.
If we can keep the safety practice sessions going to educate new paddlers it will help build everyones skills.
Oh by the way, this Saturday weâll have to see if Randy can continue his string by getting wet again. Last year he went over in water so deep he had to roll over to get wet on both sides. I donât know, I keep trying to teach the boy but what can you do.
Actually, folks, paddling partners donât come any better.
Joe
To be real
To be real about it, some folks have allot of skills, some quite safety aware, however, few if any sometimes have a tow line and know how to use it, numerous folks never wet exited, no immersion gear, no bulkheads or spray skirt, frequently people stray 100 's of yards away from group, some do not bring a light for evening use, no one has a VHF or cell phone necessarily, there are times the paddlers are more than 150 yards from shore and miles from the launch. Many people have not heard of nor believe about gasp reflex. To be fair allot of effort has gone into educating people, allot! People are becoming more conscious, yet the group has grown so quickly, it has been difficult. Many many really great folks, just hopin it evolves befor a tragedy.
Not offering solutions, just an observation.
as you describe that group
It sounds like the leader would be anxious.
When I started paddling socially there were large groups heading out of a protected bay and into narrow passages between cliffs and outcroppings meandering in/out of caves. I knew that 1/3 of the paddlers could roll, no one was sitting outside to warn of big waves. Even though Iâd paddled the same area by myself and with one other person once it got to big groups the general feeling was that everyone became ll yrs old and it just felt like an accident report in the making.
Fine line indeed!
Depending on area and temps, letting a new paddler do anything but Internet shopping âin winter would be over the topâ.
Nice of your group to want to me inclusive, but sounds a bit too PC for me. Youâre also very optimistic to trust people to be willing/able accurately report their skill level. How do beginners know?
Many trip descriptions will sound doable to eager newbs - until they get into them. Too late then (and while often no big deal - could be pretty annoying to everyone else). How would they know where their limits should be?
Not meaning to rag on you or your group policies specifically (itâs your club), I just marvel at the differences of where the fine line gets drawn from group to group.
Iâve got to say a great paddling club
â Last Updated: Mar-17-05 10:04 PM EST â
is so wonderful. Imagine getting to paddle lots with great paddlers and them giving to you because you want to give to others. The elders of my club have given me a paddling education worth about a grand. In return I pass it on, both on the water and in writing, as I can, in organized and disorganized fashion. Several paddlers have suffered a basic safety educatin at my hands. I am lucky to have ever met certain padlers, and you know who you are!
Also there are about 30 trip leaders in our club, we often exchange information. Generallly most novice paddlers are reasonably accurate with their skill assessment and with Nystrom, Jed, and others doing weekly skill sessions we know that most on our trips can handle a wet exit and re-entry in light conditions.
Full floatation front and rear, immersion gear for the conditions, etc these things are a must! If in doubt I will check out a boat and interview a paddler if I am leading. Any responsible trip leader or guide would simply say "sorry, you can go on another trip later but you are not going out with me today. These are the things you need (or here is a time and place you can take a novice trip or here is a place you can pay for a lesson or two then come back and see me and we can practice for free" My family does not need me to run trips in order for us to eat, so I have no compunction about saying no and providing guidance to the straight gate. Part of the deal. Safe fun and frequent, but safety first.
Ther are clubs that require a wet ear test before you go out on certain trips. Wet an ear and roll or scull up or you are not on the trip. Well if that's the way it is so be it.
Thatâs real alright!
Real disturbing!
ââŚnumerous folks never wet exited, no immersion gear, no bulkheads or spray skirt, frequently people stray 100 's of yards away from groupâŚâ
Wow! Makes my solo paddles seem ridiculously safe. I usually have all that stuff (including tow/VHF/cell), except immersion gear as the water is warm year 'round (my biggest safety asset).
I told you heâd get me
Oh well I deserved it :0)>
The ocean is an advantage perhaps
Peter,
From my perspective it would be an advantage if the folks in our club experienced the ocean, rather than moving up from canoes as kids to rec kayaks, or right into touring kayaks. Like Celia says, people really donât know what they donât know, and it if very NOT real to them that they may not be able to get to shore 100 yds. away in 36 degree water, and how flash frozen they may get once out of the water in even 50 degree day with a wind blowing. They have not seen the article in Sea Kayaker about the fellow dying after a wet exit. The fact that we donât have an ocean here is such a lure, as people are in pretty stable boats, and donât go in often. There is a great sense of false safety, and the time, expense, motivation, and even inclination to pursue a tow line, wet or dry suit, skills, even getting in the water ONE time is simply not something many will do.
This is just human nature really. I myself, remember years of not being willing to wear a bicycle racing helmut that was adequate on the âgroundsâ it was too hot, now I see that was BS. but I was convinced.
Thanks everyone here for reactions. I think we are headed in the right direction. The major person who got safety concerns started is providing âadventure with skill learningâ trips, a great way to learn skills and have it be more digestible even fun. We have started a Thursday night skills and fun session. And a core bunch of us is experimenting with clearer expectations and sharing this with other paddlers as motivated equals not better than thou experts.
Wayne and all, how in the world does a âleaderlessâ group work, if the folks who show up donât cooperate? How are emergencies handled? Are the people who come experienced with each other so you donât have to rely on structure, etc.?
Water Safety
The issue w/inland paddling groups is often messier than on the ocean, which has a tendency to back people off because of fear of waves. The questions are rarely around level of practiced skill, but level of awareness of said skills to start with. In that scenario, you will get people who are not what the rest of us would call âsafeâ at all.
So you are at the launch point, they are there, and frankly they are going to get on the water with or without you because they really donât see any reason why not. And unless they spend some time socializing with a decent prepared group, thereâs little chance theyâll get into lessons etc.
Do you leave them alone and hope you donât pass an overturned boat on the way back, or take them with you and put an experienced paddler with them?
Itâs not an easy call. Celia
You need to set minimum standards
â Last Updated: Mar-18-05 9:05 AM EST â
While its natural to want to be as inclusive as possible, the best thing you can do for some folks is to say "no" if they don't meet certain basic requirements for gear and skills. Perhaps a better way to look at it is that you're saying "not yet" until they reach the level they need to be at to participate safely.
One of the things we've traditionally done in our skills sessions is to take a newbie's boat that has no floatation or only rear floatation and demonstrate what happens when it gets swamped. The reactions from people are telling, to say the least. NOTHING drives home the dangers of kayaking like actually seeing what happens when things go wrong. This is true not only of newbies, but also of more experienced paddlers that may be called upon to lead trips or deal with on-water emergencies. I get the impression that you realize that your club trips as you're currently running them are "an accident waiting for a place to happen".
To get back to standards, the minimum for a "Level 1" (flatwater) trip would be something like this:
- PFD, which is to be worn at all times on the water.
- Clothing appropriate for the conditions. That means not only for the water temps, but also for the sun and wind.
- Full floatation in the boat, either bulkheads and hatches or WELL SECURED float bags front and rear.
- Deck rigging sufficient to allow the boat to be handled during a rescue or towing situation.
- Spray skirt, which is to be worn at all times on the water.
- Bilge pump.
- Paddle float. Although they probably won't know how to use it, it provides the opportunity for impromptu skills sessions/demonstrations when the conditions are favorable (warm, shallow protected water). We've found these sessions to be quite valuable and eagerly accepted by most paddlers.
- Food and water as appropriate for the length of the trip.
- An audible signalling device, such as a storm whistle or horn.
These are basic equipment items that all paddlers should have.
As for skills, at a minimum you need:
- Basic strokes for going forward, backward and turning.
- Demonstrated ability to do a wet exit while maintaining control of the boat and paddle.
Leaders need considerably more, both in terms of skills and equipment. Here are some of them:
- VHF radios. I cannot understate the importance of trip leaders being able to communicate or summon help under any conditions and the best way to insure this is with radios.
- First aid supplies and the skills to use them. I strongly recommend that people who are going to lead trips get wilderness first aid and CPR training. I haven't had to use either, but I'm glad that they're in my "tool kit".
- Tow rigs and the skills to use them. Managing a towing situation can be tricky and needs to be practiced.
- Charts, compasses and the skills to use them.
- Solid, practiced rescue skills, both self and assisted. During an emergency is not the time for the leaders to discover that they can't roll reliably or get other paddlers back into their boats.
- The most important skill for leaders is one that has to be learned over time, good judgement. A leader needs to be able to decide when it's safe to make a trip and when it's best to stay on shore. One needs to be able to decide when to abort a trip if conditions change unexpectedly. Sometimes you have to refuse to let unprepared paddlers participate in trips. You also need to be able to take charge of a difficult situation. These skills can be learned, but not everyone is suited to the task.
Rather than having all-inclusive club trips, I suggest that you offer different levels of trips, based on participant skill levels. Start with the most basic flat, warm, sheltered, near-shore trips and add levels from there, up to the level that your leaders are competent to handle. Set increasing requirements for gear and skills for each level. This approach reduces the disparity of preparedness of paddlers on trips, which makes them safer. It also provides a progression for club paddlers to follow, up to whatever point they feel comfortable. It also makes it easier for leaders to say "no" to someone when they aren't up to the requirements.
I'm sure I've left out several important details, but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying. As a club grows, you have no choice but to impose a certain degree of order on trips. In fact, it's the responsible thing to do. Share your skills and help others progress, and encourage them to do the same. It will be a bit of a struggle to define your club's goals and philosophy, but it's worth the effort. We've been at it for several years and we're still struggling with some issues. However, I've become convinced that there is no organization that can reach as many people and promote safe paddling within a community as well as a strong club. I wish you the best of luck with yours.
Leaderless in Connecticut
Itâs hard to explain, but here goes:
The whole concept of a âleaderlessâ system is to force participants to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. We were finding that nobody wanted to lead because inevitably, leading meant conflict with someone in the group over the course of the day. We also found that many people who did show up were expecting the club to be a guide service. Itâs kind of a local mentality that people do not take well to not being the one in charge, yet they also demand that someone else do everything for them, and take responsibility for even inconveniences, much less accidents. Subsequently, we were down to one paddle per month or none at all, because nobody wanted the hassle. And the paddles we did list were generally really easy ones, and were led by the club officers. Even then, shouting matches erupted over decisions that the leaders made. It wasnât fun anymore.
What we do now is list a paddle, including the destination and expected difficulty, so that everyone is clear as to what the group is doing, and what skill level the paddle is expected to be. Whoever shows goes. The group decides democratically on the particulars or changes before launch, and anyone who is going to break off early announces their intentions ahead of time. It is also understood among club members that anyone who strays from the plan is on their own, and anyone who does not meet the clubâs safety requirements (PFD, sprayskirt, ability to keep up, etc) are NOT part of the group. Believe it or not, we have to toss people 5 â 6 times a season for not having proper gear.
People still donât always cooperate, but since theyâre on their own officially anyway, theyâre welcome to leave at any time, and they often do. Emergencies happen, and theyâve always been handled much the same way as they were under the old system of leaders. Our advantage is that we have a large core of âregularsâ who all know each other, and thereâs usually no need to have a lot of rules. People just automatically pull together when needed. Weâre big on rescue practice & skill building as a result of our focus on personal responsibility.
On advanced level paddles, itâs a little different. Paddlers are generally much more experienced, and thoroughly prepared. The participants are usually much more disciplined, and have a plan in advance. Those paddles are the least troublesome. They also are usually not on the offical club schedule, but are more âshow and goâ affairs posted by individuals on the club BBS. I usually put a couple of advanced trips on the schedule, and the itinerary is explicity spelled out so that thereâs no doubt as to what weâre doing.
Basically, we let a set of informal practices evolve from experience, and from our new attitude that weâre all adults, and are expected to act like it and take responsibility for ourselves.
Wayne
INdeed
I can see a question going to the organization here! Do they want us making this call. Good point.
Ocean is no barrier around here
I see people out in salt water in rec boats all the time. 2 weeks ago, my girlfriend and I were out in Fishers Island Sound on a windy day, and saw 2 rec boaters headed out to an island in jeans and sweatshirts, and one had no PFD.
There was still ice on the shore, and the Mystic River was still iced in at the time.
We changed course away from them, and avoided the whole situation. We had a fatality here 2 years ago in which a paddler in a swifty was out in 4 - 6 foot seas and gale force winds solo in november without floatation or a sprayskirt.
It makes those of us who take safety seriously look like a bunch of idiots.
Wayne