Stand corrected…
We’ve seen dumb but not nearly that dumb in Maine. Guess we’ve been lucky?
Maine
Ah, one of my favorite places to paddle!
I think it’s the fact that Maine’s coastline is fairly rugged to very rugged depending on where you go that does it. That, and the fact that I’ve noticed that Maine boaters are much better mariners than the typical weekend warrior with more money than brains (In ALL types of boats, not just kayaks) that we have far too many of here.
Folks in Maine tend to take their boating more seriously, IMO. They’re friendlier overall, too. I really like seeing that when I paddle there. People here tend to declare whatever they want to be a “right”, and charge out into oblivion without knowing what they’re doing.
Wayne
Very very informatative
Wayne thanks, I get it now. We may be able get there in the near future. I am a believer in keeping the structure low and the felxibility high, but it does take people with both skills and experience actually pulling together so it goes in a crisis.
Thanks Wayne and all.
FORMATION
Want to play bumper boats? Have you ever been smacked in the head with a paddle or the back? Go ahead make it more fun for a newby next time. Lick some PITA toe jamb you guys. Some of you are the reason why people taunt you at lakes. I’m ashamed to be associted with yaking. By some of the posts, you are in same group as road cyclist, along the same lines of people who take golf to seriously.
get real
Most spend more time in the pool than in unchlorinated water. Go ahead, go practice in the wave pool some more for the real deal. Honestly you shelter yourself to much to have a good time. Relax, I don’t smoke herb but I think some of you should start. I think the ticket, as one previous person stated, is not to have a leader.
wet exist
The key technique for wet exiting, GET OUT.
SMSUNMAN805
Are you arguing with the little green guy on your shoulder, or addressing someone specifically.
me, just a well-humored observer.
rules
You voted for Kerry. Did you not?
antagonist
Just trying to push a few buttons.
why green?
could he be blue? HA Ha
they come in different colors?
OH Yea
Poly, F/G, and Kev. You might think about getting one, saves some relationships, or yaking clubs.
Well, Evans it looks
like any intelligent discourse on your subject is over. It was good while it lasted though. I got some good ideas.
Joe
Good reminder
It is a good reminder that unsoliciited advice is seldom if ever appreicated. Perhaps at a distance, a very long distance. Glad you liked the discussion, I go allot out of it. I find I hear more if I keep my mouth shut while listening.
road cyclists?
tsk, tsk,someone spoke sternly to you on a weekend ride?
Lose you grip on a boat in 20 knot wind
and you are ins serious trouble. control over self boat and paddle while getting out: that is a wet exit. anything else is just living throught the next two minutes
When was the last time you split
– Last Updated: Mar-22-05 8:43 AM EST –
up a group of 30+ novice paddlers into two groups of 15 + and managed them on the ocean ins 10 knot winds wiht heavier gusts and one knot currents, (remember these are novices).
Some things go with other things. Ther are loose and tight formations. I am no advoocate of tight formations, anyone with enough boat control to handle one should have the skills to handle the conditions. Nothing makes me more nervous than a well intentioned companion in rough water interfering with my paddle stroke to be close to me in case I go over. I do not want to have to think about another paddlerin close proximity.
I do dislike it when folks bump my boat, except for one of my paddling buddies who likes to take his montauk over the back deck of my explorer (only in flat water please) to check my bracing skills.
You can have it both ways, sort of…
What Wayne describes is essentially what we call a “Show & Go” trip. It’s announced on the club bulletin board and interested paddlers show up and go. There is minimal formality and no official leader, though the person who posted the trip is generally considered to be in charge of the route, though its usually flexible.
The formal trips that our club runs are more structured and are intended for people who want that structure and the sense of safety and relaxation that goes with it. This is especially common with novice and occasional paddlers, who don’t have the skills to paddle safely alone. Routes are selected based on the type of paddler the trip is intended for (we define them as Level 1, 2 or 3). Required skills and equipment are spelled out. Participants must indicate their interest in advance and trip leaders pre-screen them to be certain they’re up to the challenges of the planned trip.
While this process is obviously more laborious and time consuming, it’s arguably the best way to get lower level paddlers out on the water safely. It also gives us a chance to explain the reasons for the gear/skill requirements and suggest product and/or skills sessions that will help paddlers reach the necessary level of proficiency.
To date, this system has worked very well for us.
That sounds pretty organized to me
Wayne: With all due respect to your very active group and the many skilled paddlers in it, I found your guidelines replete with indirect references to explicit leadership and planning on the water.
Thus, though you claim ConnYak practices “leaderless” paddling, where “nobody has to ‘lead’” or “be making decisions” how do you get a lead paddler, and a sweep? Ok, they can be changed at will in the middle of the paddle, but whose will? How does the sweep “call for a stop (to bring) the stray paddler(s) … back to the group.” How do you cross a channel “in quick, organized fachion” if nobody is organizing it? When there’s a capsize, ~who~ stops the group?
I think your encourangement of wide participation in the leadership and logistics of a paddle is a great idea. But what I’m guessing really happens – correct me if I’m wrong – is that a few senior paddlers in the group implicitly assume leadership roles, and, by virtue of their seniority, command obediance. The upshot is that you ~do~ have leaders on paddles… it’s just not written down anywhere.
That seems both good and bad. It’s good that it cuts down squabbles about who’s in charge. But it’s a problem if it means that someone with inferior skills, experience and judgeement can seize control and wind up leading by virtue of bravado (I’ve seen it happen!).
And what happens when things get dicey, and you need one or two really experienced, savvy padders in charge, really in charge, so the group acts optimally?
The other possibility, I suppose, is that nobody dares come on your paddles except very experienced kayakers who all know what to do, are committed to teamwork, whose own skills match their opinions of their own skills, and who agree who’re really the unspoken leaders. But somehow I doubt that happens very often for club-style paddles.
–David.