What about the other BCU?
The British Canadian Union?
At least over there they know they’re all canoes 
Origins of ConnYak “leaderless” system
– Last Updated: Mar-20-05 10:29 PM EST –
I see how you do it -- pardon my other post, which I wrote before reading this one. Still, it sounds like you do have leaders, just a more fluid definition of it, combined with attempts to promote true group repsonsibility. I'd still worry in a really dicey situation. On the other hand, dicey situations can become disasters even with a clear leader. There are lots of issues there, which I don't mean to open up right here.
But most interesting to me is the reason ConnYak adopeted this "system." I always assumed that, like say RICKA (the Rhode Island club,) it was to try to evade the legal liability of having appointed leaders and club-sanctioned trips. If I read you right, that wasn't a factor, but more that you had too many and too strong personalities all vying to be leader at once. Or was liability another motivation, one that you haven't mentioned?
I may as well mention that one reason I am still a bit skeptical about the ConnYak system is what happened a couple of years ago on the multi-club advanced paddle from Groton Long Point to Fishers Island to Napatree Point. In my opinion and that of some others, that was a near disaster on a fairly large scale, and at least partly because of the ConnYak organizational style. Or maybe it was that many of the participants did not understand what they were getting into w/r/t that style. But for whatever reason, there were a lot of people in various degrees of trouble that day, despite conditions that were not all that rough.
And a lot of the problems that day seemed to flow from the lack of organization and clearly defined leadership by ConnYak, who was "hosting" the event.
Liability
Liability was part of it, because appointing a “leader” implies expertise, and therefore creates an avenue for attorneys to attack an individual or several people.
As to the multi-club paddle, there was leadership (I was among them), but there was a distinct lack of listening and preparation among the many in the group that I was in. Add less than optimal weather (Personally, I thought the conditions were fun, but that’s just me), and several folks who should have thought twice about launching at all, and it became what it was. We had two capsizes in our group, two paddlers who ran out of gas, and 2 who overshot the launch & got lost on the way back (Long, weird story there), and we handled all 5 situations, including making sure everyone who bailed had a ride back to their cars. Can’t do any more than that, even if you have super-leaders.
I think you nailed it when you said there were people there not prepared for our style — they were looking for traditional “leaders” when all we generally provide is a plan. The person who coordinated the intermediate group said afterwards that he now knew what “herding cats” meant. I think it was more a function of having 65 paddlers there than it was a bad plan. It’s just too hard to coordinate that many people effectively without breaking up into 6 smaller groups.
Wayne
Here’s the trip report:
From my perspective, obviously. It was run in teh ConnYak newsletter the following month:
The multi-club paddles on Oct 5th were a learning experience for quite a few people. The marine forecast turned out to be a little conservative, and some folks’ estimation of their own skills and stamina turned out to be a little liberal, which usually means carnage is in the forecast.
The advanced group launched from Esker Point Beach in Groton, with the plan to paddle to west clump off Fishers Island & paddle the reefs to East Point with the outgoing tide. We would then head outside of Napatree for a possible big reef session, and on to lunch. The return trip would be into Stonington, and along the CT shore back to Esker Point.
In the morning, we were really moving fast, and made it to East Point with plenty of time to spare before lunch at Napatree Point. The tide was still running out through Wicopesset Passage at a good clip, so we went into the passage to play & made our way to the rocks at the end of Napatree.
What we found there was tide current from the north, a swell from the south, and a sustained 15 knot wind from the west. This made for some really confused seas, about 3 feet or so, with the occasional 5 foot rogue wave out of the southwest, that would break near the pilings. As I was making my way across the area near the pilings, a big wave went under me, and broke across the stern of a paddler who was already surfing another wave. He tried his best to brace, but to no avail. John Lathrop and I got him back in his boat, and away from the pilings.
Just as we completed this rescue, I heard “man overboard” on the VHF. At first, I didn’t think it was one of us, because that’s usually not a term kayakers use, especially on the radio. Wrong. I then heard where the swimmer was, and realized it could only be a kayaker. As I was looking to see if the new swimmer was being assisted, I got hit across my beam by a big wave, and had to high brace into it, and ride it sideways for a few yards before it let me go. I got re-oriented, and saw she was OK. As we got into lunch, the day was looking great for our group, as we had an exhilarating paddle so far.
The other two groups came in, and they had similar tales to tell of capsizes, combat rolls, and Doug Downey towing one of the novice group into Napatree from Watch Hill. Nobody seemed overwhelmed at this point, but when Jay Babina mentioned running a bailout shuttle from Barn Island, he did get a few takers. There was one member of the advanced group that I had reservations about, and I even had said at the beginning of the day “I’ll be towing him before the day is done”. I probably should have suggested to him that he go talk to Jay about a ride to Esker.
The day began to fall apart right after lunch. The wind was approaching 20 knots sustained, and all but the novice group had to paddle into it. The biggest problem was no coordination — all three groups launched at the same time, and didn’t group up before they proceeded. Some people got left way back from their groups. Fortunately, I decided to hang back and sweep for the intermediate and advanced groups. And sure enough, my premonition came true: The paddler I had tagged as needing assistance at the start of the day couldn’t make headway into the wind. I towed him from just west of Sandy Point to the outer breakwater at Stonington, and then two of us team towed him to just off Stonington Point. Nick Schade suggested we drop him at the point, where Carl Tjerandsen could give him a ride back to his car. To my total surprise, the paddler jumped at the opportunity. A welcome and wise move on his part.
The rest of us re-grouped at the breakwater at Stonington Harbor, and took a break. Several more of the advanced paddlers decided at this point to bail at Mystic & get rides. We launched, and about a half mile out, I held up to regain my sweep position. I took count of the boats in front of me, and realized one was missing. I found her, and she was having trouble with a malfunctioning rudder. We repaired the rudder, and contacted the rest of the group by VHF to let them know we would be about 10 - 15 minutes behind them, and that we were the sweep paddlers, and all was OK with us.
We got in to Esker, and there were 2 more missing. I had seen two paddlers about 1,000 yards ahead of me, and way off shore, and assumed it was them. One of them had a VHF, and we established radio contact. They were lost, but they thought they were at Groton Long Point. Two vehicles armed with VHF’s tracked them down on land, and brought them back. They had overshot the landing by a mile or two. Everyone was accounted for and on land by this point.
A few lessons should have been learned this day:
- Group cohesion is absolutely necessary. You can’t be rescued easily if you’re off on your own, or you can get lost. We had people acting as leaders on all three paddles, but there was a distinct lack of listening, and many people did not stay close with their groups. Plans change as conditions dictate, and if you’re not with the group, you’re not going to know.
- The launch from lunchtime was a disaster. Each group should have launched separately, and grouped up on the water before they left. What happened was a stampede.
- A number of people overestimated their abilites. Speaking for the advanced group, the conditions were not that bad (15 to 20 kt winds and 2 to 3 foot seas). Anyone who launched with us should have been able to handle it & even enjoy it. Capsizes happen, and the two we had and one other in another group were not out of the ordinary, and I don’t count them in the category of overestimation of ability. There were people who could easily have done the advanced paddle who did the intermediate & novice paddles anyway. These people, and the people who decided to bail should be role models for new paddlers.
- What saved the day was the VHF radio. Coordinating between leader & sweep and across different groups is really easy if you have radios. The VHF turned a potential disaster into a fun day on the water. Think about that if you paddle in salt water a lot & don’t own one.
Thanks to everyone who participated, and especially to those who helped keep it all together and make it a fun day in spite of a few issues.
NO Way
I rode and raced with our G-boro group. The race group was great and alot of fun at that, but on regular weekend rides it a little less friendly atmosphere. To many big headed egos.
My name is Seth
I was feeling the Troll Roll friday, Can you do that move? 
Evan sorry to hijack the forum.
Just say no…to the dark side that is
Hey it is not like I am always constructive myself. But seriously, join the community, add to the collective stuff. Don’t waste your time and ours. View it as an invite, or not, whatever, OK?
Fact
I love kayaking and the means travel that it provides to remote places that are otherwise looked over. It is also a way to test yourself both in stength and endurance, both are things that I enjoy. Is it the pain or the experience? Maybe some trips don’t need leaders just an ending point. To each is own. To the guy that said something about losing your boat in a 20kt wind, then maybe its time to explore some sort of leash for these conditions, with a quick release, incase of boat sinkage.
PS: I’m leading, putting together a trip this year for the cape fear, wilmington, and carolina beach section.
Good assessment of that day!
– Last Updated: Mar-21-05 4:30 PM EST –
I appreciate that report... pulls few punches. I think the "blame" (if we must assign it) goes equally to the participants who overestimated their skills and the sponsoring club (yes, you guys) who probably did not anticipate what you were getting into, and especially how a bunch of new folks would interact with your "leaderless" system, or IMHO, your "ambiguous leader system". But people overestimating their skills is pretty predictable, so...
BTW, I was the one who overshot the landing, and got things back together for me and fellow paddler (whom I never saw before or since) with the VHF. I'm not sure what you mean by a "long, weird story" ;-))). I wasn't lost, or rather as soon as we realized we had missed the turn back to the launch/land spot I saw on my chart exactly what we had done and where we were headed. It was actually very close (by land) to the original landing spot across the peninsula, so there was no need to panic, nor to turn around against a stiff wind with two tired paddlers.
Anyway, I had a good time for myself that day, despite the problems for many and my own "adventure" at the end. A little embarassed, for sure, but basically satisfied with my performance.
One thing -- that experience absolutely cemented for me the need to carry BOTH a VHF and a CHART, no matter who else in the group has them. Besides avoiding panic on the water, I was actually able to guide the truck to our impromptu landing site by VHF, using the land contours on my chart.
--David.
Plans change as conditions dictate,
… and if you’re not with the group, you’re not going to know.
Dang that’s good. Mind if I quote you Wayne?
Long, weird story
If we had known who was with you earlier, we’d have warned you…
Sure!
It’s not about more gear
which can entangle you and break, it’s about skills (in theis case a controlled wet exit after a wave hase kicked you and your roll has failed).
On the other hand Chris Duff uses a boat leash simetimes so…
Regarding whole different world…
Hi!
I know that world…lol
I have done a lot of paddling either in a Kayak or a canoe on narrow twisty-turny rivers, lots of above and below water obstacles…and even some that were right on the darn surface.
Here’s how we typically handle it.
- There’s Co-leaders. Two of them. One is Lead and one is Sweep.
- Our groups are kept to a size limit.
(people are tested on/and taught basic paddle strokes, etc. before launching. We usually know who the newbies are before hand, so this is not unexpected.)
- For canoes : weaker/less exp. paddlers are placed with a stronger paddler, who steers and gives good direction and encouragement. It also tends to stop the whole “racing” ahead problem.
- Since both Co-leaders are familiar with the route, they can be up front, at different times. Also, we educate the rest of the group on known obstacles, etc. before going through each section of the river.
- When a leader comes upon an surafce obstacle, he/she stops before it, alerting those behind them of the issue. Usually, stopping is for things that must be portaged over or under for very low to the water surface, where paddlers must get out. However, stopping occurs for things that can cause capsizing due to combo of current (remember, very narrow, twisty-turny river) and obstacles.
This way the group is kept ‘together’ and aware of situation. Also, leaders and experienced paddlers are on-hand throughout to get everyone passed the obstacle and help with rescues as needed. A leader will go through it first, thus being up front leading… One always stays behind until everyone is through. Leaders usually change-up being in front this way.
- We use those little portable hand radios to allow sweep and lead to keep in touch.
- We have a verbal call system to alert those behind us to upcoming river conditions, i.e. like “Low Bridge”, “Tree”, “Rock”, “Left”, “Right”
“Hairpin!”, “Sand”, “Stay Left”, “Stay Right” etc.
Haven’t had any problems so far. Of course, all systems rely on those that enforce them.
Conditions
Only in conditions which warrent them.
Trying to understand fragments
– Last Updated: Mar-22-05 2:05 PM EST –
Trying to find the antecedant for "them" in your post. Perhaps the antecedant is skills. No mattter where you are, you better have some skills like the ability to swim and/or reenter or roll. Again, you were the one saying a wet exit is simply getting out of the boat. Do that 1000 times in the beginning and bad habits will be hard to overcome. Comntrol over boat paddle and self is a must. Advise newbies that a wet exit is just getting out of the boat and you are doing them a disservice. From the tone of many of your posts I think posting to p-net is just "fun time" for you, go do that on a panel of experts, not where it might cause new paddlers to do silly things that could hurt them later.
Some of us teach paddlers who go out on the ocean, and we need them to get it straight.
Sorry for the interruption but
I haven’t contributed to this thread but, like many others have read it with interest. However, I can’t take it anymore. Can PeterK please, please develop some grammar “skill sets” in order to effectively communicate? He might actually have something legitimate to say but I cannot for the life of me make heads or tails of these either drunken or illiterate ramblings that are so distracting from what might be a relevant discussion. Thanks for your patience. You may now continue.
forgot
I forgot the other rule, don’t freak out while upside down.
Dyslexic and horrible typist
– Last Updated: Mar-22-05 4:37 PM EST –
Not worth my time to make it perfect. Bet you can understand it if you want to.
But the above post was really bad 'cause I did it while working; edited it now during a break.