I'm not an engineer, yet I'm absolutely positive I can bore a forum with over analysis.
BTW, Carldelo, are you in NYC? Why did I think you were in CA?
I'm glad Ret-Dave entered the thread because I saw Aleut posts by him in old threads I researched, and I'm especially glad he mentioned the offset nature of the Aleut blade with respect to the shaft. I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that the Aleut seems to have a pointed tip rather than a flattish GP tip.
I think four things contribute to the perceived stability (non-flutter) when using the ridged side as the power face.
1. The ridge anchors the stagnation line, according to Carl. I only buy this when the paddle face is pulled flush to the water. If the paddle face is rotated around or translated along the X, Y or Z axes during a stroke -- sliced, pitched, angled, canted -- I think this ridge will cause unpredictable water flows that could even cause flutter. So, I assume an Aleut paddler learns to pull during a power stroke in such a manner as to maximize the stabilization potential of the ridge.
2. When a paddle face is offset from the shaft, the indented face will produce less flutter as power face than the flush face will. I know this because I have a straight shaft ZRE paddle with an offset blade with otherwise identical faces, which exhibits this exact phenomenon. Therefore, the blade offset on the Aleut may be contributing as much or more to the stability as the ridge.
3. This is speculation, but the pointy paddle end may cause less flutter upon entry than a flattish end. Many aboriginal and native canoe paddles today, for example, have pointed ends.
4. Subjective superstition and hooey. It seems obvious to me that non-fluttering canoe, Euro and GP paddles can be made without Aleut ridges, because they are all over the paddling world. The Aleut shape is the outlier. (Actually, I think all paddles flutter a little at some velocities, but the flutter can easily be controlled by grip.) Therefore, while Aleut paddlers can love their ridged paddles for all sorts of functional, aesthetic and historical reasons, I'm not convinced that these paddles offer any better stability or other efficiencies than many good non-ridged paddle designs do.
reflections on Glen’s post Re. the attributes in Glen’s point 1 and point 2— I see no reason to separate them and think they act together synergistically. That’s my opinion, not based on any experiments.
Point 3 is interesting. The Skinboat School paddle comes to a slightly rounded point. The Beltraine paddle ends in a almost flat tip. I looked at George Dyson’s 1986 book “Baidarka”, to see what it shows. In the historical painting and drawings from the 1700’s and 1800’s there are paddles tips covering the whole range from rounded to very pointed. Almost half of the illustrations show single blades being used in the Baidarkas and larger skin boats. No Freestyle moves are shown.
Re. point 4, I will just state that Aleutian paddles work for me and I don’t really need to know the official or generally accepted reason why they do.
Since we both live in Ct, a small state, we should meet at a lake such as Bantam Lake and trade paddles back and forth on a long paddle. When pondering the advantages of sharp edge GP vs. more rounded edges, I found the best method was to paddle a few hours with a friend and exchange paddles every 15-20 minutes. All 15 people I’ve done that with ended up favoring the sharp edge paddle. I started using a rounded edge GP and was surprised myself when I also favored the sharp edge GP. Live and learn.
Skinboat School. Bantam. Canoe. Dave, where is the Skinboat School you keep mentioning? I visited a place up around Anacortes Island in 1999 or 2000, where a guy had a school to build baidarkas. I got all interested and bought Dyson’s book. Almost bought a baidarka at the Wilton Outdoor Center.
Sure, I’d love to try the paddle if I can clean all the protected mammals out of my neglected kayaks.
Since I’ve only been canoeing for the last several years, I really need an Aleut-ified single blade paddle. But I don’t have the interest or skill to build one.
So yesterday… I set out to make an effort to try the non-ridged face of my Aleut paddle as the power face.
First I tried just paddling. It flutters.
Next I tried various canted orientations. I found that I could make it not flutter with some cant and a slow, low-angle stroke. But if I tried to increase the power of the canted stroke the paddle started to climb to the surface. I really couldn’t find a comfortable for me angle.
I tried chanting. Unfortunately I don’t know any Greenlandish chants, so I did a Welsh one that my grandmother taught me. I found it ineffective.
My hands were wet at this point, so I couldn’t get the incense lit to do any incantations.
So I went back to using the ridge face as the power face. low-angle, high-angle, slow cadence, faster cadence, high-power, low-power. It just works. It just feels right to me.
So for me, with the Aleut paddle that I made this spring, ridge face is power face.
Aleutian paddles came from the Pacific North West, so Welch or Greenlandic chants would be unlikely to work even if the gods of Aleutian paddles were listening.
My 9 year experience with the Aleutian paddle and my understanding of the effects of the slant built into the paddle faces concur with your opinion that ridge face is power face.
I’ve been mentioning the Skinboat School only to identify the pattern of the Aleut paddle I’ve most used. It’s likely based on some historical paddle, I haven’t asked which. Looking at the few patterns online, Zimmerly’s looks most like the one I carved.
It is the same place you visited on Anacortes Island, WA., owned by Corey Freedman. I saw one of his early Baidarka frames (no skin) on the dock at the Center For Wooden Boats around 1993. I couldn’t get it out of my mind, so I went to the Skinboat School and built one a decade later. I also also carved an Aleutian paddle while there, which has been my favorite since. I’ve made 4 others to the same pattern, and two to Beltrane’s pattern.
No need to clear out spiders from your kayaks. I could bring two kayaks; the Baidarka and another, or a kayak and the Rapidfire. Contact me by email and we can set a date for a Bantam Lake paddle exploration. I’ll bring the two different pattern Aleutian paddles (and a spare).