What is "too heavy" for a paddle?

A lot of it depends on where the weight lies, the technique of the paddler, and where you paddle. A heavier swing weight is good in big water and for those that have quit overusing their elbows. Lighter overall is better for newbs that use their forearms for the heavy work.

When you get good enough you can rely on your personal preference. I use either an Epic mid wing or Fenn 4 for kayaking. I designed and built my own paddles for single blade usage. They weigh 11-12 oz and have heavy swing weight.

I always pay extra for light paddles. While a light boat feels more responsive, they are not significantly faster. But a light paddle pays off every time, especially at the end of a long day. That said, too light can be a danger (too fragile)ā€¦

@willowleaf said:
Somebody on another paddler forum posted a 26 ounce Werner carbon Kalliste paddle for sale for $320 and somebody else posted the comment that ā€œyou can get a carbon paddle from Academy Sports for $99ā€.

Out of curiosity I looked at the Academy website and they do have a ā€œcarbonā€ paddle by Magellan for $149. It weighs 50 ounces!! 50 ounces is almost a pound heavier than most ā€œbarbellā€ aluminum and plastic tourist rental paddles! Also, half the buyers who reviewed the model reported that the shaft broke early on during use. Such a bargain!

I pointed out that using a 50 ounce paddle rather than a 26 ounce paddle would mean that you were swinging almost 1.5 extra tons of weight per hour.

30 strokes per minute x 60 minutes = 1800 strokes x 24 ounces = 43,200 ounces divided by 16 oz/pd = 2,700 pounds.

Second commenter said ā€œI donā€™t think your physics/mathematics make senseā€. Numbers donā€™t lie. Engineers, weigh in.

Well if youā€™re going to throw out nerd bait youā€™ll catch me almost every time.

I think your analysis is fine as a first approximation (especially since you have stated your assumptions) and interestingly enough this site has an example that follows your logic exactly.

But there are some detailsā€¦

You donā€™t really lift the whole paddle each stroke, it seems more like you lift one side. The motion is pretty complex but I think kayak paddles sort of pivot around the center. So maybe you ā€œliftā€ only half the paddleā€¦so this would reduce your estimate.

There are dynamic forces involvedā€¦since you have to accelerate and decelerate the paddle. Those forces increase with weight and would add to your estimate.

Thereā€™s some effect of mass distributionā€¦even intuitively if you add 20 ounces to the center of a kayak paddle shaft it would be easier to use than if you added 10 ounces to the tip of each blade. I suspect that a 50 ounce kayak paddle would have heavy blades and this would add to the overall effort (since the cg of each half of the paddle would move closer to the blade).

I found a tennis racket swing weight estimator that seems to highlight the four key factors.

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/swingweight_calc.php

And oh my goodness we havenā€™t even touched on wind resistance. (nerd humor).

On the subjective side I can tell you that if you do sit and switch with a canoe paddle and double the weight of the paddle it takes a sh!tload more work.

Make sense?

Gotta love engineers.

I can relate one subjective testimonial: I was paddling solo at a local reservoir and encountered a young couple in rec boats from the on site rental franchise. Apparently it was the femaleā€™s first outing and she was complaining loudly about how much she hated the activity and how hard it was to paddle and why couldnā€™t they turn around and leave now. I noticed that the paddle she had looked both too long and extremely heavy: one of those $29.99 discount store monstrosities with a metal shaft and black square plastic blades about an inch thick. I had a spare 220 Werner Sultan on my deck and offered to swap with her until we got back to the dock.

With her first stroke with my paddle her eyes lit up and she took off across the pond like a bat out of hell. I watched her boyfriend try in vain to catch up. By the time our paths crossed again on the way back to the ramp she was gushing about how much fun kayaking was and how she wanted to get her own boat now.

Before we swapped back I did try the livery paddle that she had handed off to me just from morbid curiosity ā€“ freaking thing must have been 6 pounds and I felt like I was going to dislocate my shoulder after just a couple of strokes. Was like paddling with a barbell.

@willowleaf said:
I can relate one subjective testimonial: I was paddling solo at a local reservoir and encountered a young couple in rec boats from the on site rental franchise. Apparently it was the femaleā€™s first outing and she was complaining loudly about how much she hated the activity and how hard it was to paddle and why couldnā€™t they turn around and leave now. I noticed that the paddle she had looked both too long and extremely heavy: one of those $29.99 discount store monstrosities with a metal shaft and black square plastic blades about an inch thick. I had a spare 220 Werner Sultan on my deck and offered to swap with her until we got back to the dock.

With her first stroke with my paddle her eyes lit up and she took off across the pond like a bat out of hell. I watched her boyfriend try in vain to catch up. By the time our paths crossed again on the way back to the ramp she was gushing about how much fun kayaking was and how she wanted to get her own boat now.

Before we swapped back I did try the livery paddle that she had handed off to me just from morbid curiosity ā€“ freaking thing must have been 6 pounds and I felt like I was going to dislocate my shoulder after just a couple of strokes. Was like paddling with a barbell.

There you go. About as subjective of an observation as you can get. A non yaker who wasnā€™t enjoying it at all now wants her own Kayak based on nothing but the weight of the paddle and the good deed of one paddler!

Iā€™m still trying to find that balance in budget / paddle weight to see what I want, although Iā€™m really starting to like my Greenland paddle more and more, depending on what kayak I take out.

Yeah, GPā€™s can be addictive. I almost never use a non-GP since getting my first one 10 years ago. I have several Werners and Aquabounds that only hang out on my decks as spares or are loaned to friends. There are a few people I know of who have tried GPā€™s and decided that they prefer conventional paddles, but they seem to be in the minority. I have never tried a wing paddle long enough to get the hang of it so I stay open-minded about those, but any time I use a standard paddle I am greatly relieved to get a GP back in my hands.

For me it depends on the conditions. If I see wind and waves I still have a little more confidence in my Werner Cyprus. If itā€™s calmer Iā€™ll typically use my GP. But the GP is fairly new to me so things may well change with more experience.

I really like the cranked shaft of the Werner, but I also like the larger diameter, super smooth WRC loom of the GP.

Weight. Cheaper EURO paddles are up above 34 ounces. Better ones weight in at 29 to maybe down to 24 ounces. Typical wood greenland in the range of 27 to 33 ounces. Best in ā€œMY Opinionā€ greenland is 22 ounces made by Superior kayaks. My two piece weighs exactly 22 ounces measured on high end scale BUT $$$ all carbon. i use Euro on shallow creeks, a 210 length 28 ounce Aquabound I got for 120, carbon shaft blades fiberglass mixture of some sort , take rock abuse ok , whitewater paddle much heavier and one piece, even all carbon whitewater can be in the 34 ounce range .

@kfbrady said:
For me it depends on the conditions. If I see wind and waves I still have a little more confidence in my Werner Cyprus. If itā€™s calmer Iā€™ll typically use my GP. But the GP is fairly new to me so things may well change with more experience.

I really like the cranked shaft of the Werner, but I also like the larger diameter, super smooth WRC loom of the GP.

Sounds about where I am on the GP. I went out a couple weeks ago to go camping and decided I would paddle the 7 miles with the GP. Conditions were a bit rough out on the water when I took off in my ā€œnewā€ used boat and I was missing the Euro blade! lol Nothing like some bumpy water to make you want whatā€™s more familiar!
I enjoy the GP but Iā€™m still learning itā€™s ways and havenā€™t made up my mind about how much Iā€™m going to be using it yet.

Generally speaking, buy the lightest paddle that your budget can support. As you approach the lightest paddles available, however, small decreases in weight equal large increases in cost and for the typical paddler the weight difference is not noticeable unless you are doing multi-day trips with upwards of 20 miles per day. Selecting the proper length for your height and kayak, as well as the proper blade style for the type of paddling you intend to do, are just as important for comfort. also, bent shafts are not for everyone. I find bent shafts force my wrists into an uncomfortable position when compared to straight shafts. I also use Yak grips because I have large hands and most paddle shafts are too small in diameter to be comfortable. BLUF - try your friendsā€™ paddles to figure out what you like before spending serious cash.

@SharpsRifle said:
I enjoy the GP but Iā€™m still learning itā€™s ways and havenā€™t made up my mind about how much Iā€™m going to be using it yet.
Thatā€™s pretty typical when making the transition. You not only have to learn GP technique, but you have to un-learn habits you may have formed with the Euro paddle. The most common issue is using a ā€œcontrol handā€, which isnā€™t necessary with a GP (or an unfeathered Euro, for that matter).

@bnystrom said:

@SharpsRifle said:
I enjoy the GP but Iā€™m still learning itā€™s ways and havenā€™t made up my mind about how much Iā€™m going to be using it yet.
Thatā€™s pretty typical when making the transition. You not only have to learn GP technique, but you have to un-learn habits you may have formed with the Euro paddle. The most common issue is using a ā€œcontrol handā€, which isnā€™t necessary with a GP (or an unfeathered Euro, for that matter).

Unlearning bad habits is one of the things I like about learning the Greenland paddle. I learned by buying a cheap rec boat and going fishing. I learned and took up an interest in the long boats. Three boats later and I know I need to learn proper paddling technique and I find the Greenland paddle is different enough to give me a reboot on the technique. There are other things I like about the paddle and plan on making one or two this winter.
At least one from Cedar and maybe one more exotic, heavier for the wall behind the bar.

I built a beautiful GP by laminating maple and mahogany. Heavy as a brick, relatively speaking. A wall ornament for sure.

The lighter the more expensive they are. So without spending a small fortune the fiberglass shaft paddles are a happy medium under $100 usually. Like the Bass Pro Ascend Tournament Kayak Paddle $79.99.

The paddle you mention weighs 2.5lbs. 40 ounces is too heavy for me, and I suspect too heavy for most serious kayakers.

Plus it only feathers 60-0-60 and I have no need for a ā€œConvenient tail fin lure recovery hook built into bladesā€.

Anything heavier than foam core is too heavy for me. I had to actually use my spare paddle for a day at a training due to a last minute issue with my foam core paddle. Donā€™t have the weight, but the backup paddle was a credible but still heavier than the foam core fiberglass paddle.

I was hurting by the time I got in.

I ordered a foam core paddle within days of being home so that both my main paddle and the backup were foam core. Different brands (older one is Epic and the one I ordered then was Werner) but both very light.

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Celia, was the back up paddle the same model and dimensions (other than weight) as the foam core paddle that it replaced for that training session?

If not, it may have been more than the weight that responsible for the extra hurt of that session, though I definitely notice a difference between my all carbon Epic Relaxed Tour and the Hybrid construction of the Relaxed Tour with the same dimensions.

It was not the same anything, though not at all a bad paddle. Forget the make. But lam quite sure however that the major increase in weight from a foam core to a solid plastic and carbon fiber paddle was the primary culprit.

To be picky there is a major difference in ā€œcarbonā€ and ā€œcarbon fiberā€ and some ads interchange the terms. ā€œCarbonā€ could be anything from adding graphite to the epoxy in a shaft or blade to using some carbon fiber in the paddle. With ā€œcarbon fiberā€ you will see the weave of the cloth everywhere and you will pay the price for quality. Not all black paddles are carbon fiber you have to look for the weave.