thanks Sing
you are of course right. I met a group that went for a river paddle last night and the river was low. there were rocks in there! looks like I will need a helmet soon too.
Paul
cheap and easy
– Last Updated: Nov-01-06 9:41 AM EST –
Buying used ww boats in easy and inexpensive. I've purchased three in the last couple of months. The most I've paid thusfar is $250 - that boat was in beautiful shape and came with float bags.
One was too high volume for me and I've already passed it on to a friend.
Used ww boats are very cheap this time of year. It is also a good time to buy as they are much easier than long boats to use for winter pool sessions.
More advice
Alright guys I’ve been checking out the boats you have talked about and I am really likeing the Mamba but I can’t decide what size. I have to adjust the 8.0 to its smallest size everywhere to make it fit but I do fit. I haven’t been able to find a 7.5 to check out but I thought I would ask you if you thought it might be better. Also wondering what kind of helmet you would suggest. and straight or bent shaft paddle
Add foam to the 8.0, custom fit it some
You’re right at the top of the weight range for the 7.5 – usually not a good place to be as a beginner, as it might make it more succeptible to currents, act more like a displacement hull boat and turn piggishly, and less stable. Better to adjust things tight but comfy and then add foam knee blocks and other touches that make you more connected to the boat in more places and take away slop.
http://www.coloradokayak.com/Padz-Knee-Blocks
or
http://www.rivergypsies.com/kneeblocks.html
Short Boats; and Learning
– Last Updated: Nov-06-06 7:31 AM EST –
Just a comment on that - tho' conditions will have to wait until next spring, we've had our new-used WW boats out in flat stuff to get a sense of how they behave and if they seem to fit right. They are also older river runners, as we are rank beginners in this stuff.
The one we found for me was a Dagger Piedra, a boat that feels on the flat like it'll be as forgiving as its reputation. Re the discussion about starting out with really easy boats, I think you just have to know yourself and honor that. I happen to be in the "gotta make it feel safe" school of learning new things in conditions since my downside tends to be anxiety that can render my physical skills moot. So I will walk away with a few good practices some days rather than press on for repeats that might alter that ending confidence, things like that. It takes me longer but I ultimately get there.
As far as the personality of these little boats - after spending the last few years manuvering 16 and 17 foot plus boats around, good boats all, it is a joy to have my lower body attached to a boat that is an easy fit on volume. No lost in translation moments etc. For a leetle thing it just has tons of personality, and even with it's being anything but a play boat it's still a hoot.
One thing that I find to be good discipline as well - while the Piedra will tolerate the kind of vaguely all over the middle and back kind of rolls that are easy to develop in boats like my Explorer LV, you know on the first such roll that it's not preferred. We noticed this even more with our friend in the Animus. These boats respond much better when the paddler is more clearly centered in the boat or a bit forward and has real conscious control of their body position and the boat's rotation. The Piedra would do the shotgun roll for example, but I had to make sure to put a lot of my lift of the boat into the first half. Not entirely dissimilar to having to be conscious of exactly how much bow I use when managing a long slur on the violin.
I hope you are not disappointed
The Piedra is very different in actual whitewater than it is on the flats. You will probably get lots of chances to practice your combat roll. It is actually less stable and less maneuverable than many shorter flat bottomed boats and gets pushed around by the current much more. It is, however, probably the easiest boat to roll there is.
paddles and helmet too
what about paddles, length and helmets
Inazone 232
What about the Inazone 232 for a smaller person
,beginner
Choose a helmet with c are
I use a Gath helmet which not only provides impact protection but, probably more important, does not slide around on my head. Most WW helmets slide back to expose the forhead so the second rock you hit can kill you. You should be able to hit the front edge of the helmet hard with the butt of your hand and not have it move. There are other brands. Shred Ready with the h.o.g. system is good. Be sure to get maximum coverage over the ears, forehead, and back of the head.
Should work fine.
An older 230 might work even better but either the 230 or 232 are good river runners that paddle nicely, are easy to roll, and are detuned enough to be forgiving.
Paddles
WW paddles are generally shorter than sea kayak paddles. I am 5’10" with 34" sleeve length and average torso length and use a 194. Standard offset now seems to be 45 degrees (which is what I use) but more and more people are going with 30 degrees or less. I also use a bent shaft paddle (AT3 Edge), which I strongly prefer but you might feel differently. I would get a good fiberglass straight shaft paddle from a known maker to start out with and then borrow lots of paddles on the river. You cannot go wrong with Werner, even the less expensive versions. I would not recommend Aqua Bound unless you get one of their more expensive models.
Inazone again
I have a female friend who is thinking about trying to kayak. She is small about 5’ 2" and weighs maybe 105. I was wondering if the Inazone or a mamba 7.5 would fit her
Both are too big for her.
Instead of the Mamba check out the GT 7.5. It has a weight range that she is right in the middle of and is considered a beginner boat.
We’ll see
– Last Updated: Nov-06-06 2:13 PM EST –
I noticed that the Piedra has less interest in forward speed than more slalom style boats like the Pirouette S on the flats, and figured that it'll get pushed around a good bit more than some. It also lacks the ability to catch an edge like I found with even the Pirouette, so mayhaps that'll be a plus in terms of restricting capsizes. I tried the Jackson Hero and, while I agree that it has remarkable stability, I also felt like there was just a heck of a lot of boat to manage. (Didn't think it rolled as easily as my long boat either, at least at my size.)
In any case, we are starting out in pretty mild stuff for sure and I am sure it'll be fine for that, and be a great pool boat for getting serious about a hand roll this winter as well. As to giving me chances to roll - the reason we are doing this is to give us some practice in current and etc to apply to sea kayaking, without the 4 hour drive. For me, it's equally about learning to manage it and to stay focused and execute a roll in current, since my physical abilities exceed my mental focus.
Also, I have to say that the more time I spend in the Piedra, the more I start looking at those planing hull boats and thinking that a smidge of sinkability in the back would be fun... where would you place the above-mentioned GT in that respect - none or a little? (5'4" and 135 pounds).
Join a paddling club!!!
You can then try all sorts of boats and gear and this thread can fade quietly into the archives.
MDM
Dagger GT
You are near the top of the weight range for the 7.5. Ordinarily that would mean a good potential for play (like, say, stern squirts) but the GT is not really designed for that and Dagger’s own rating of the boat is low for play characteristics. My personal preference is to be at the top of the weight range. That gives you better control and more potential for doing difficult moves while making it more likely you will tip over if you get lazy or confused and catch an edge. Most people, especially starting out, prefer to be a little bit light for the boat. It will ride higher and require less attention.
Paddling club
ther isn’t one within 100 miles from where I live
Eastern Colorado
Your profile says Eastern Colorado. Have you checked Mountainbuzz.com? I would guess that there has to be something in close proximity.
MDM
clubs
Colorado Springs is about 120 miles but I think I’ll join anyway they seem like a good bunch
I am an old-school, displacement hull
fanatic, but there is a reason I recommend against considering used displacement hulls like the Rockit, Corsica S, or even the Pirouettes and the Hurricane. The reason is that, after the shift to planing hulls, serious attempts to design better displacement hulls almost ceased. Except for some capable creekers, what modern displacement whitewater designs have appeared in the last five years?? I can’t really think of any. Certainly not in plastic. The Prijon Athlete, for example, is really a semi-planer.
Displacement slalom hulls continue to evolve, and if you fit in one, don’t mind occasional repairs, and prefer moving around to playing in one spot, they are worth considering. But I don’t expect to see any takers.
Based on the high performance of slalom boats, I think that modern displacement designs could have much to offer. But today’s buyers are pretty happy with the planing and semi-planing hulls that make up virtually all of commercial offerings.
Anyway, unless you know you prefer slalom-type moves, I would not recommend buying old plastic in an obsolete design.