what to do when being rolled in surf to protect shoulder??

Advice
#1

I took a surf class a couple of weeks ago and we were in what, to me, was fairly heavy surf. Definitely not good surf (very dumping, irregular period, just generally erratic). Anyway, I was riding a breaking wave in at a fairly brisk clip when I began to broach. In lighter surf, this is my normal controlled surf landing. Get sideways to the wave, hi brace with my elbows down low and just ride it in. This wave would have none of it and I got rolled, and then at some point during the couple of seconds when I was spun upside down, my shoulder sort of popped and my arm became useless. I wet exited and headed to the beach. Shoulder snapped back in place a couple of minutes later. I have my first appt with a physical therapist tomorrow. Didn’t seem like a major dislocation, but I’m pretty sure it was in that category of events. In trying to reconstruct the accident, I believe that what must have happened is as follows. I turned right (shore to left), was bracing on right, got rolled towards shore (counterclockwise) and probably straightened my body out (trying to shift torso from facing right to facing left). My guess is that as I did that, the paddle swung around to the other side of the boat (as if I was trying to keep it parallel to boat, near the hull, on the left side of my boat). I believe I may have ended up with the paddle being pulled away from me, toward shore, and that it got a bit behind the direction that my torso was facing. Anyway, it all happened so fast, I’m not really certain, but that seems like a plausible scenario based on what I remember and what I believe my instincts may have been.

I don’t see myself becoming a surf kayaker…I just want to be able to get in through surf if need be. I REALLY don’t want to risk a more serious shoulder injury. I guess one question is what should one do when a failed high brace and tumble in the surf (I believe some call this being window shaded?, or a Maytag moment) is imminent. Maybe I should just drop the paddle, wait for the tumult to end, and try to roll up with my spare paddle which I keep assembled (well, its a GP so no assembly necessary) on the foredeck. And if that doesn’t work, just wet exit and let me and my kayak find our way to the beach independently. I don’t know but am eager to hear others thoughts. Thanks. (may have a second post on the general topic)

#2

Just some stray thoughts; A lot of safety in surf is about staying in control and knowing some rules, but it takes instruction, time, and practice.

It sounds like you weren’t leaning strongly enough into the wave (you can lean hard into a big wave), lost control, and the forces acting on your paddle and arm injured your shoulder. When I feel that I’m being rolled away from the wave, I INSTANTLY get into a forward tuck position and get the paddle alongside the hull and hold it there until the turbulence ends (the turbulence will try to rip your paddle away – keep it against the hull).

Stuff happens when you are learning, so avoid the big stuff until your skills are ready. Practice on beaches that are clear of swimmers and other kayaks.

A low brace works great for side surfing and is safer for your shoulder. It can be used on even very large waves. Make it your “normal” option.

That said, a high brace can be a safe option as well, but you MUST ensure that the waves/turbulence do not pull your paddle/shoulder out of position (easier said than done if you screw up). The prime way to dislocate a shoulder is by having your active arm high and behind you, unlinked to your torso. Stay in the box, in order words use your torso to place your paddle in-front or behind you, rather than moving just your arms; Imagine that your “GoPro” is strapped to the center of your paddle shaft and it should always be able to record your smile (this means your arms and torso are moving together as a safe, strong unit).

Finally as you capsize, don’t stay in your brace and don’t “drop the paddle”, rather, bend your arms quickly, go into a forward tuck and bring the paddle against the gunwale; have the patience to wait awhile until the turbulence dies down, and then roll up. A tuck is also useful for paddling out through the surf zone – rather than get hit in the chest with a breaker (which can slam you back hard onto the aft deck), tuck forward, “spear the wave”, and then paddle strongly once the wave has passed. Should you capsize you are already in a good tuck position.

Ask experienced kayak-surfers for local knowledge. Different conditions may require different actions. There’s a lot of difference between a nice spilling surf and large dumpers.

Greg Stamer

#3

Where are you located?
Sorry to hear about your shoulder, dealing with an injured joint is never fun, hopefully it heals up quickly.
For an answer about getting worked in the surf zone it may be situational, but tucking your body down is going to be a huge part of it. For the most part, I’d say tuck as if you’re setting up for a roll, get everything tucked forward, down, and in, with the paddle either parallel to the boat, or pushed down across the boat similar to a low brace. If you feel as if a blade is getting torn out of your hand just let go, try to hang on with the remaining hand. I’d say dealing with a swim is better than a possible injury, but if you still have one hand on the paddle, you may be able to re-orient the paddle and setup for a roll. This is a good way to roll practice if you’re going to be in the surf zone, fall over with only one hand on the paddle, and practice moving the paddle around under water to get a good setup for your roll. Letting go of the paddle and getting your spare out in the surf zone might be possible, but not something I’d rely on regularly.
If a wave is coming at me and I know it’s not going to end well, I might also fall into the wave on the wave side of the boat, maybe with a low brace or very compact high brace setup and a lot of edge towards the wave. So if my boat is parallel to shore, and the wave is coming at me on my right side, I’ll fall\body lean right into the breaking wave. Sometimes your body and lifejacket will give enough lift that you’ll stay on the water surface and the wave will pass under you. Sometimes you get lucky and the wave will lift you as it passes, maybe give you a gentle lift on the paddle, and set you back upright. Most times you get worked, but your body stays on the “safe” side of the wave, and you can setup for a roll when the waves passes.
I’d also say try to get out of the habit of using the high brace when broaching and try instead to rely on your low brace and a lot of boat edge. Just as effective if done well and safer on your shoulders.

This site pertains to surf kayaking, but some of the sections can be helpful for sea kayaking as well, like the “paddle out” section, where you can see how they tuck down to get out and trhough the waves.
http://www.surfkayakskills.com/paddling-out.php

#4

It sounds like you know what you are doing for the bongo slide sideways. Might be good to have someone confirm you have the arm positions correct, just to make sure you are safe. Note - once a shoulder has gone out, it likely will pop out much easier than one that has never gone out. So that side may continue to be weaker and you need to be extra careful with it.

Once you roll, the safe position is to lean forward and bring the paddle parallel to the boat. Basically, the roll set up position. This protects everything, including your head. Surf is often in shallow water, so sitting up straight - which when upside down means straight down - exposes your head to hitting the bottom. So leaning forward limits the risk there. Bringing the paddle parallel to the boat keeps it under control.

Once you have this down, and are ready to venture out, using the paddle while you are window shading can cause you to roll back up, without even doing a roll. Just the pressure from the water catching the blade can do it. But this pressure is also what likely caused you to dislocate the shoulder, so this should only be done when you have the safe positions down and are venturing a bit back into trying things. A wet exit and letting your boat get flushed to shore likely is safer at first.

#5

Must agree with “If a wave is coming at me and I know it’s not going to end well, I might also fall into the wave on the wave side of the boat, maybe with a low brace or very compact high brace setup and a lot of edge towards the wave.” I will only add that when I do this, I retract the paddle so that it is in-line with the boat and not sticking out to the side like a broken thumb. Nothing good can happen when the paddle is not in control of its user.

Which brings me to the second point: It seems that you were probably holding the paddle even though you did not have control of it. If you consider the length of the paddle as being a long lever (which, of course, it is), the amount of force at the end of that lever is more than enough to seriously injure the shoulder. Hope it heals well. I’ve separated a shoulder before and it is remarkable how much pain is involved.

A low brace is the preferred method for surfing for just this reason. You can put a tremendous amount of weight on the paddle as you lean into the wave without exposing the shoulder to injury. The best thing about the low brace is that it one can keep it relatively in-line with the boat. A high brace tends to place the paddle perpendicular to the forces on the wave, a low brace tends to allow you to surf the forces and adjust the blade to dynamic changes in resistance.

As your boat broaches to the wave (as it often will, particularly in dumping surf), slide the paddle blade forward if more support is needed, back toward the stern if less (this will change since forces pushing on the paddle will vary as the wave energy dissipates). Resist the temptation to flip the paddle into a high brace (though this is easily done, the low brace is sufficiently strong to cope with the wave forces (if it worked on the wave face when the forces were greater, it should be more than enough when you are broached and bouncing in the foam). A low brace can be converted into a forward stroke more easily and naturally and a forward stroke while riding the foam will turn the bow into the wave, facing out to sea, in an instant. This works even in very long kayaks. From here you can decide to paddle back out for another ride, or paddle backward to shore with a good eye on what is coming next :).

All this time, your bottom should be adjusting beneath you to keep your balance. You want the boat to lean only as far as the blade can support. I went through a phase after a back injury where I was too rigid at the lower end of the torso and unable to comfortably lean my torso into the wave and keep the boat beneath my butt at the same time. After bracing on the face of the wave, I would lose support and fall into the wave when the initial energy dropped off. One I realized what was wrong, I forced my (stiff and aching) bottom to keep the boat under me. Fortunately, this turned out to be pretty good therapy and since it was was in Monterey Bay, I was effectively icing the injury pretty regularly (52F water that day).

I do have a tendency, in really large waves, to switch to a high brace when I am not thinking things through (one does what one is trained to do, reflexively). I have to think about forcing a low brace in all conditions. I do not remember an instance where a low brace did not work just as well. I have heard that many instructors do not teach the high brace at all any more.

Rick

#6

There’s an abundance of good advice above.
If I look at a landing, and there is nasty dumping surf, I decide if I am likely to succeed in landing safely and exiting the cockpit before the next wave hits. If I don’t fancy my chances I exit the cockpit in deep water just outside the dumping waves, move to the stern of the kayak, hang on to the stern line, and follow the kayak into the beach. I exit a keyhole cockpit by sliding both legs over one side with my hands behind my body, and I can usually do this without capsizing the kayak, although this really doesn’t matter. With my ocean cockpit Nordkapp I capsize, wet exit, and proceed as before.
There are old kayakers, there are bold kayakers, but …;
Nick.

#7

:wink: I make surf landings like Charlie Brown on the pitchers mound. I move to the ICW, river or lake.

#8

haha - yeah, I don’t think I have ever had to land in surf I was uncomfortable with as I usually launch and land from ramps at bays, estuaries, lakes, relatively placid rivers, the ICW and the back side of barrier islands. But I suppose it could happen one day.

#9

@nickcrowhurst said:
There’s an abundance of good advice above.
If I look at a landing, and there is nasty dumping surf, I decide if I am likely to succeed in landing safely and exiting the cockpit before the next wave hits. If I don’t fancy my chances I exit the cockpit in deep water just outside the dumping waves, move to the stern of the kayak, hang on to the stern line, and follow the kayak into the beach. I exit a keyhole cockpit by sliding both legs over one side with my hands behind my body, and I can usually do this without capsizing the kayak, although this really doesn’t matter. With my ocean cockpit Nordkapp I capsize, wet exit, and proceed as before.
There are old kayakers, there are bold kayakers, but …;
Nick.

So Nick, does your kayak usually manage to stay upright? With you holding onto the stern, I would guess it tends to stay perpendicular to the wave face (pointed to beach)?

#10

@gstamer said:
It sounds like you weren’t leaning strongly enough into the wave (you can lean hard into a big wave), lost control, and the forces acting on your paddle and arm injured your shoulder. When I feel that I’m being rolled away from the wave, I INSTANTLY get into a forward tuck position and get the paddle alongside the hull and hold it there until the turbulence ends (the turbulence will try to rip your paddle away – keep it against the hull)…

…A low brace works great for side surfing and is safer for your shoulder. It can be used on even very large waves. Make it your “normal” option…

…The prime way to dislocate a shoulder is by having your active arm high and behind you, unlinked to your torso. Stay in the box, in order words use your torso to place your paddle in-front or behind you, rather than moving just your arms; Imagine that your “GoPro” is strapped to the center of your paddle shaft and it should always be able to record your smile …

It all happened so fast but I tend to lean very aggressively into breaking surf, like almost 90 degrees (i.e., so that hull is vertical and looking at beach and I think it’s likely that that is was what I was doing then. It certainly wasn’t a timid lean.

Still, I got rolled and by the time I had largely into my flip (with top of head pointed towards beach) probably did end up with paddle high and behind me, possibly as the passing wave and underwater turbulence grabbed onto it. Again, guessing, but I probably didn’t do much of a tuck but just twisted around from facing the wave to facing the beach. But my paddle rotated from the starboard side of the boat (waves) to the port (beach) side quicker than my torso did and then got leveraged further by the waves.

Which brings me to another question, or request for clarification. Do you tuck and place paddle on the wave side (brace side) or the beach side (the side you are getting rolled towards)?

Regarding low vs high brace, I will definitely need to work that into my motor memory. It’s just very natural for me to high brace. It seems to me to be an extension of forward stroke, part of the forward sweep, etc. For low brace, you need to stop paddling and tilt the blade at a different angle (so that “front” side is placing pressure on water). I haven’t tried but it also seems like the high brace transforms easily into a sculling brace whereas, sitting in my bathtub typing this, I don’t see that as something easily accomplished, or at all, with a low brace. Finally, because I do lean aggressively into the wave that is potentially going to “window-shade” me, I’m having a difficult time imagining my arm positions doing a low brace with the kayak jacked up way on its edge. Maybe it will be more obvious though next time I get out on the water to practice this.

Oh, and one last thing, do you recommend an extended paddle position for the low brace in big surf or does that again introduce safety (e.g., shoulder or other) concerns.

PS - probably wasn’t smiling, but appreciate the GoPro suggestion.

#11

If you are leaning strongly enough into a wave with good technique you won’t often be rolled away from the wave, no matter how large it is, but it takes practice. That said, unusual things happen in surf, and quickly, so I wouldn’t worry too much about it, but it should be a fairly rare event when your technique is honed. If you consistently keep getting rolled away from the wave, you need to fix something with your technique, and are probably not doing what you think you are doing. A good coach can help immensely.

Water is rising up the face of a breaking wave (think of the opening credits for Hawaii-Five-O as an example) and as long as you insert your paddle into the wave (either a low or high brace) you can almost capsize into it and still get support, until the wave fades. Usually when I get rolled away from the wave is when I’m not really leaning hard into the wave and am trying to maneuver (roller coaster) or I temporarily lean the wrong way. With practice you can side-surf even huge waves, while moving the paddle fore and aft to “steer” to some extent, to alter your course to shore.

My normal method of landing in big surf is to come in straight/diagonally and intentionally pick a side to broach on, and come in sideways, but that is just my preference. This was a safe and controlled way to land when Freya and I circumnavigated Iceland – the south shore is a steep beach of black volcanic sand that creates powerful dumpers. More than a few expeditions have met their end on those beaches…

That said, should you get rolled away from the wave, I generally tuck and place the paddle along the beach side of the kayak and use the momentum of the roll to go into your tuck; for example if you are getting tossed to your left (toward shore) you can more easily tuck with the help of gravity by tucking on your left side. Your right side would be “uphill” in this case, making a tuck more difficult. You can use the momentum of the capsize to help you roll, but sometimes it’s best to “hang out” awhile underwater, and let the “washing machine” fade, and then roll-up when there’s less turbulence.

After you get experienced in the surf you can often roll up by just sensing how your body/kayak is orientated to the force of the waves and apply a little pressure from the paddle and pop-up instantly. It’s something that you have to learn rather than being taught. When you friends ask you how you “did it” you won’t have a good answer, and will reply with something like “I just felt it and it happened”. That said it helps if you have a finely tuned roll as roll practice also hones your spatial orientation underwater.

If you are using a GP with a canted blade stroke (the top edge of the paddle tilted forward), then you can easily apply a low brace by simply rolling your wrists forward slightly to “flatten” out the blade, without needing to extend, and just lean into the wave and spear the (almost) horizontal blade into the wave. Your arms will be low, just above the deck. Just as a reminder, for a low brace your palms face downward and the active blade is the side that normally faces away from you. I sometimes perform a partial extension with my GP in the surf; for that you simply keep a firm hold with the hand on the side of the brace (toward the wave), and allow the paddle to slide through the opposite hand as you lean into the wave. I don’t find a full-extension to usually be necessary, but if you have time to anticipate, it works as well.

Greg

#12

@Monkeyhead said:
So Nick, does your kayak usually manage to stay upright? With you holding onto the stern, I would guess it tends to stay perpendicular to the wave face (pointed to beach)?

Yes, one’s body acts as a massive sea anchor, so the kayak points perfectly down wave. I flip the kayak upright if it is inverted, and then follow it in while kicking with my legs to keep them near the surface. You and the kayak will get slightly beaten up and water-logged, but rather less beaten-up than if the kayak is loaded with your weight. The part I try to avoid is being too slow to get out of the cockpit while being knocked about by succeeding waves. Practicing swimming in the surf-soup while wearing paddling gear is good experience, with an experienced pal on the beach with a throw-line and a handy recovery kayak. I find it very difficult to make any progress in a drysuit, especially if I’ve forgotten to exclude the trapped air.
Of course, one always looks for the most sheltered part of a landing, perhaps behind a sheltering rock, but often that option is not available.
However, Greg (above) is the highly experienced and skilled guru, and you should heed his every word.
Nick.

#13

@nickcrowhurst said:

@Monkeyhead said:
So Nick, does your kayak usually manage to stay upright? With you holding onto the stern, I would guess it tends to stay perpendicular to the wave face (pointed to beach)?

Yes, one’s body acts as a massive sea anchor, so the kayak points perfectly down wave. I flip the kayak upright if it is inverted, and then follow it in while kicking with my legs to keep them near the surface. You and the kayak will get slightly beaten up and water-logged, but rather less beaten-up than if the kayak is loaded with your weight. The part I try to avoid is being too slow to get out of the cockpit while being knocked about by succeeding waves. Practicing swimming in the surf-soup while wearing paddling gear is good experience, with an experienced pal on the beach with a throw-line and a handy recovery kayak. I find it very difficult to make any progress in a drysuit, especially if I’ve forgotten to exclude the trapped air.
Of course, one always looks for the most sheltered part of a landing, perhaps behind a sheltering rock, but often that option is not available.
However, Greg (above) is the highly experienced and skilled guru, and you should heed his every word.
Nick.

Yeah, I mostly paddle warm water (Atlanta w occasional trips to nearest coast) but recently took a new drysuit for a spin and was surprised at how ungainly I felt in the water. A tip I picked up here was that you can deflate the suit in water (or on land) by pulling the gasket over your mouth, but below your nose, and just sucking the air out (in through mouth, out through nose). It actually worked pretty well. I had previously used the yoga crunch technique but my new drysuit is goretex and it was my impression that it re-inflated a bit on the water.

Greg’s sage advice is indeed highly appreciated. He is a great explainer! I took my first Greenland class with him about 25 years ago down in FL, but regrettably out paths haven’t crossed since (i.e. at the paddling festivals I infrequently attend).

Dave

#14

“Regarding low vs high brace, I will definitely need to work that into my motor memory. It’s just very natural for me to high brace. It seems to me to be an extension of forward stroke, part of the forward sweep, etc. For low brace, you need to stop paddling and tilt the blade at a different angle (so that “front” side is placing pressure on water). I haven’t tried but it also seems like the high brace transforms easily into a sculling brace whereas, sitting in my bathtub typing this, I don’t see that as something easily accomplished, or at all, with a low brace. Finally, because I do lean aggressively into the wave that is potentially going to “window-shade” me, I’m having a difficult time imagining my arm positions doing a low brace with the kayak jacked up way on its edge. Maybe it will be more obvious though next time I get out on the water to practice this.”

Humm. Some issues here.

Let’s start with definitions. A low brace is called a low brace more because it uses the non-power (back) face of the paddle. It is done more by applying body weight on the paddle than it does arm or shoulder muscles. It does not require the wrists to rise above the elbow. In fact, in my stroke (I use a non-feathered paddle) my knuckles are either facing down or slightly forward. Any brace done with the power side of the blade is a high brace. The wrists are tilted up toward the sky and arm and shoulder muscles to keep it strong. Keep in mind that in a low brace, the back of the blade works only slightly less well than the front (there tends to be much more than enough power from the wave to keep the boat from capsize, as long as the blade is relatively flat).

If you need to stop paddling to set it up, something is wrong (most likely a lack of confidence in using the rear face of the paddle). Normally, as the stern is rising on the wave, I continue to paddle. If the boat begins to veer to one side, a low brace at the end of the stroke on that side. It is a smooth transition. On steep waves, I admit that once I have captured the wave face and start surfing, I have been known to wait to see which side of the boat will need a correction before placing my stern rudder (low brace). You simply put the back of the paddle at the stern of the boat and lean as much as necessary to correct for a turn that may lead to capsize.

To get a feel for a sculling low brace, do the following: Paddle forward on calm water at a decent pace. Put the non-power face of the paddle at the stern and lean to that side. Sweep the paddle forward and lean over very hard. You will quickly see the low effort and smoothness of the brace. Going into a scull while using the back of the blade is (somewhat) less effective, but 1/2 of my sculling strokes are done with the back of the blade anyway. I switch to the power face at the end of the scull by twisting the wrists before making the return stroke. It is a very smooth transition for me. My forward scull is done with the back of the blade, my stern scull is done with the power side.

When broached on a wave, going from bracing, to a forward stroke is done when the boat is being bounced around in the froth and the paddle is (roughly) perpendicular to the wave. Tilt the blade toward a normal forward stroke and pull firmly, but slowly. The bow will rise slowly (at first) and then as the stern corrects itself in the wave, the bow will quickly turn into the wave and be ready and in line with the next oncoming wave. All done with a low brace and about 1/2 of a forward stroke.

Writing these descriptions is hard and they make sense to me. Doing it is much easier.

The video below shows some low bracing in surf with a GP. My blade is roughly double the width, which adds a low of force to my braces. The surf is not dumping, which, I admit changes things only in that it is harder to do well and there is less risk of perling or bottoming out as the oncoming wave sucks the water out of under you (yeah, I’ve had that happen - really not fun).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDK9l3mrlK0

#15

When people say you should be well over when coming in broached, that can mean darned near horizontal, with the low brace solidly placed. The resulting slide will bounce your body hard, repeatedly, but it IS possible to ride in like that without capsizing. It will feel like defying gravity and probably looks incredible to nonpaddlers.

Make sure you are very well used to immediately switching edges, though!

#16

I wish you a speedy and full shoulder recovery!

I have actually just let go of the paddle in a couple different moments like this. It all happens really fast, but the bigger the wave, the more I focus on keeping my elbows tucked against my torso in front. These couple occasions I felt my arm getting extended out, despite my effort to prevent it, and just let the paddle go as a conscious decision to protect my shoulder. I still think of it as having committed an error. Letting go of the paddle means I did something wrong to lead me to that. The best thing is to keep your paddle by tucking it against your kayak as described above. But there will be those moments - like when you’re determined that you’re going to punch through a wave, and you don’t, where things don’t get tucked so neatly.

A good thing to remember when being side-surfed, is that the support from the blade really isn’t so important while the wave is pulling you. If the wave has hold of your kayak, your body will be acting as on anchor, and will be on the wave side being pulled behind the kayak. Between that motion and your life-jacket, your body will be at the surface of the water. I’ve watched people popping their skirts being pulled at the surface of the water in a state of disorientation. If your kayak is being pulled along, parallel to the wave, for any distance, I don’t think you could do anything to prevent your body from being pulled at the surface behind it. When it’s time to sit up, you just have to remember to relax your top leg, and right the kayak with the bottom leg. Then bring your body and head over the kayak. You do this at the moment the wave lets go of your kayak. So just like a brace, or the finish of a roll.

When you’re disoriented, how do you know where to put the paddle so that you can get a little support to get a breath, or sit up when the wave lets go, in extended side-surfing situations? My solution is to understand that I’m not going to put the paddle anywhere. It’s going to take the path of least resistance if I hold onto it without trying to control its orientiation. When I feel the big turbulence subside - I relax my arms. Just like the body trails behind the kayak, the paddle will trail the opposite direction of travel. Let it do its thing. If it trails towards your left hand, you will sit up on the left side. If it trails towards your right hand, you will sit up on the right. I’ve had times in turbulent water where it quickly trails up towards the bow, and in that scenario, if you sit up quickly, you will sit up into a backsurf. If the paddle trails behind you, you will sit up in a forward surf. You’ve seen situations where someone side-surfing gets spun into a backsurf or back into a forward surf. It’s just turbulence acting unevenly on your kayak. If you sit up right away when you feel your kayak spin, especially if you sit up into a back surf, just make sure to keep your elbows tucked in front of you. You can apply bow draws with the power face of your paddle keeping very tight in your paddlers box. Make sure, when you broach, to keep your non-extended brace on the side facing the wave. Backsurfing can be extra disorienting. Never - never flail about with your paddle in a moment of disorientation. If you have no idea what to do, tuck and roll. No matter what, keep those elbows tucked against your torso.

So a nice shoulder protection thing is to realize that you don’t need an extended paddle for support in these scenarios. You don’t want an extended paddle - and the bigger the waves, the less you want it. You can extend and scull at the moment the wave lets go of your kayak if need be, after the intensity is gone. But think about honing in any habits of extending a paddle for additional support in surf situations. One way to think about it is “Don’t ever reach out into the Maytag while in wash mode!”

#17

@rjd9999 said:

Humm. Some issues here.

Let’s start with definitions. A low brace is called a low brace more because it uses the non-power (back) face of the paddle. It is done more by applying body weight on the paddle than it does arm or shoulder muscles. It does not require the wrists to rise above the elbow. In fact, in my stroke (I use a non-feathered paddle) my knuckles are either facing down or slightly forward. Any brace done with the power side of the blade is a high brace. The wrists are tilted up toward the sky and arm and shoulder muscles to keep it strong. Keep in mind that in a low brace, the back of the blade works only slightly less well than the front (there tends to be much more than enough power from the wave to keep the boat from capsize, as long as the blade is relatively flat).

If you need to stop paddling to set it up, something is wrong (most likely a lack of confidence in using the rear face of the paddle). Normally, as the stern is rising on the wave, I continue to paddle. If the boat begins to veer to one side, a low brace at the end of the stroke on that side. It is a smooth transition. On steep waves, I admit that once I have captured the wave face and start surfing, I have been known to wait to see which side of the boat will need a correction before placing my stern rudder (low brace). You simply put the back of the paddle at the stern of the boat and lean as much as necessary to correct for a turn that may lead to capsize.

To get a feel for a sculling low brace, do the following: Paddle forward on calm water at a decent pace. Put the non-power face of the paddle at the stern and lean to that side. Sweep the paddle forward and lean over very hard. You will quickly see the low effort and smoothness of the brace. Going into a scull while using the back of the blade is (somewhat) less effective, but 1/2 of my sculling strokes are done with the back of the blade anyway. I switch to the power face at the end of the scull by twisting the wrists before making the return stroke. It is a very smooth transition for me. My forward scull is done with the back of the blade, my stern scull is done with the power side.

When broached on a wave, going from bracing, to a forward stroke is done when the boat is being bounced around in the froth and the paddle is (roughly) perpendicular to the wave. Tilt the blade toward a normal forward stroke and pull firmly, but slowly. The bow will rise slowly (at first) and then as the stern corrects itself in the wave, the bow will quickly turn into the wave and be ready and in line with the next oncoming wave. All done with a low brace and about 1/2 of a forward stroke…

I’m not sure we’re disagreeing about anything (although I would say a low brace is called a low brace due to the position of the forearm rather than which blade face is pushing against the water [though low and high braces do differ obviously in that regard as well].

To clarify though, I didn’t say that you need to stop paddling to setup the low brace but rather, that you need to stop paddling to execute a low brace (i.e., you cannot paddle forward and low brace at the same time). When forward paddling, you are in part executing something very close to a high brace in that you have support with each stroke coming from the power face of the blade. Your boat is forming a triangle of sorts with bow and stern and paddle blade as vertices and, as such, it’s a pretty stable position especially if you have any lean towards the working blade side. The more the downward component, the more brace-like, the more rearward component, the more forward paddle like, but for all intents and purposes, it is very easy to derive support from the power face with a forward stroke while still maintaining lots of forward propulsion. The low brace also gives 3 vertices in the water but during execution you are not paddling forward. You have momentarily stopped paddling forward and are exerting at least a teeny bit of a backward force. So for better or worse, I think that’s why I rely on the high brace so much. As a factual matter, my “high brace” is almost always incorporated into a forward paddle stroke. In 28 years or so of paddling, I can’t think of a single time I’ve had to do the classroom like “slap the water” and hip snap back to vertical.

Anyway, I will have to try the hybrid high/low brace scull (i.e., switching between power and back faces of the blade as you switch from forward to reverse sweep) which you describe. I always keep the same (“power”) face to the water as per the “icing the cake” analogy. Wanting to avoid further shoulder issues, I do want to make the low brace a more familiar friend.

#18

Greg Stammer has pretty much given you the graduate level seminar on surf landings. Tuck your head down onto the deck and get paddle parallel with the boat like a roll set up, you can also use your paddle to protect your head. Some wave skiers call this the Vortex Position. Once you get a feel for getting Maytagged you can learn to move the paddle up into the turning whitewater and actually brace back up using the deck of the boat , risking your paddle and not your shoulder. You will be surprised how often you roll right through 360 degrees and keep surfing. The fact that your shoulder popped is a sign that you had the paddle and elbows too high or extended, and you probably have some weakness in the muscle structures around that shoulder. Once you pop a shoulder you can have lots of trouble, so I would work carefully at first getting full movement and then strengthening exercises, see if you can get a physical therapist to give you some guidance.

#19

That does clear up some things. What you assert about the low brace is true because it is done at the end of a forward stroke and obviously does not allow for a forward stroke on that side. This should not be a significant issue since, being at the end of the stroke, you generally will either back paddle from the stern rudder (to allow the wave to pass the boat), perform a stroke on the other side, or stern rudder and surf the wave (with all the forward force being provided by the wave, of course). Once the low brace moves forward to compensate for broaching, performing a forward stroke is as easy and natural as it is from a high brace. Any way it is done, though, the low brace is a momentum sapper, which I believe is your main assertion. Still, the stern rudder allows one to correct direction when the wave tries to turn the boat. I’ve ridden waves entirely into shore in a 17 and 18 foot boats by adjusting my stern rudder (with a bit of lean) from side-to-side whenever the boat started to veer in one direction or the other. Landing in this manner draws oohs and aahs from the crowd, but I really love bouncing in the foam - it’s a lot more fun :).

I have, in the past, switched from low to high brace once the paddle was perpendicular to the wave, but there is, I’ve learned, no need to do so even though switching from low to high feels like a natural thing to do. This is good because it isn’t worth risking the shoulder since the wave forces are strongest right at the point where I used to switch to a high brace. Like you, I had to force myself to believe in the strength and reliability of the low brace.

Good luck, heal quickly, and enjoy the water.

Rick

#20

Perhaps I missed this in one of the earlier posts, but I disagree with the general idea that getting side-surfed is a good tactic for landing in surf. As you’ve found, you lose a lot of control once you’re getting surfed, so the fundamental key to a safe surf landing is avoiding getting surfed in the first place (side-surfed or otherwise).

If the surf-class you were participating in didn’t teach landing in surf by paddling in on the backs of waves (and never getting surfed out of control, then I suggest you find a new instructor.