I’ve been comparing kayak paddles and I KNOW there’s more to a good paddle than weight but comparing Magellan Outdoors, Eddyline/Swift, Wilderness Systems, Aqua-Bound, and Werner, it seems like you have (plastic,) inferior fiberglass, then inferior carbon, then superior fiberglass, then superior carbon.
I would have thought that carbon was always lighter than any fiberglass, but (for low angle touring paddles of 220 cm), both Eddyline/Swift and Aqua-Bound have light weight carbon shaft, glass paddles at 26 oz, Werner has one like this at 27 oz.
For carbon/carbon, at the low end Werner has a carbon shaft, carbon paddle at 28 oz, and Magellan Outdoors has a carbon/carbon atrocity with its weigth listed at 50 oz! For carbon/carbon at the upper end both Eddyline/Swift and Werner have carbon/carbons at 24 & 22.5 oz (respectively).
It just seems all over the map, but if I’m looking at it right my best paddles at a lower price point will be one of the fiberglass bladed ones.
Any insight into how the materials are differing is appreciated, this is more theoretical than practical, but I just want to understand the technology.
EDIT: Also, does material difference affect blade durability much?
I’m far from an expert on carbon fiber etc, but I will say that the term is thrown around too much for the different variations possible in it. There are different weights of cf (usually listed in oz / sq yard I think?), plus the amount of resin used in its layup, that can lead to a pretty massive difference in weight even if it looks superficially the same. According the boat builder who works in the shop with me, fiberglass isn’t inherently way heavier than carbon fiber, but it needs more epoxy to set it up. I’m guessing those lighter options really will be less durable, but what weave is used will affect that too and I don’t know nearly enough about that to go off on it.
Carbon fiber is subtantially lighter than glass fiber, and much stiffer. However, it comes in many types, with the lower modulus forms being less stiff, though typically less brittle. As with any composite, it’s the layup that determines the properties of the final product. A resin-rich layup of low-modulus material or one that’s simply got a single cosmetic layer of carbon fiber over fiberglass is going to be heavier than a higher quality layup. It’s perfectly reasonable that a high-quality fiberglass layup could be lighter, too. Additionally, you’ll sometimes find heavy, low-quality molded blades on carbon fiber paddles, which negate any weight benefits from the carbon fiber. It’s all about the marketing appeal of calling a paddle “carbon fiber”.
More like you need to understand terminology.
“carbon” can be anything with a little graphite added to whatever.
“Carbon FIBER” is a cloth (in paddles) that you can see the weave.
The trick is to get the paddle makers to not use the terms interchangeably to confuse and scam us.
I think that if you stick to reputable brands the materials, specs and prices will seem more logical. I had never heard of Magellan Outdoors and when I did a quick Google search I see red flags (not a paddle company, weirdly heavy, suspiciously inexpensive, terrible reviews like “broke right away”).
@TomL Magellan Outdoors seems to be an Academy Sports brand - and is really not a consideration, except they did add a bit to the confusion.
I was surprised, however, by the ‘upper-end’ paddles with carbon fiber shafts but fiberglass blades. I guess by “rebutable brands” a novice like myself would look for manufacturers who specialize in paddles, like Werner and Aqua-Bound, but the Eddyline/Swift and Wilderness Systems paddles looked pretty good too - by the online marketing slicks…
The economy Werner’s you are referring to (Skagit CF and Tybee CF) @33oz. are injected nylon blades mixed with carbon powder and a pultruded fiberglass shaft again combined with carbon to give you a label that reads carbon shaft and blades. Truer carbon fiber paddles would be the Cyprus, Ikelos, Kalliste, Athena and Ovation @22oz. Range.
The Eddyline models are nice light paddles but the blades are built lightly. As you look at them they have unidirectional fibers infused into the blade. They’re light and stiff but a touch fragile whereas the Werner fiberglass blades have multi directional woven layers providing rigidity and durability.
@Marshall Yeah, it helps to read - it just doesn’t equate to anything to me though - I mean I think the basic shape is going to be about the same, provided I’m looking at low-angle, touring paddles in every case, so then it’s down to weight vs price, right? I don’t suspect there’s a huge difference in durability between carbon and carbon and fiberglass and fiberglass, although I’m sure there’s some differences, but what’s the difference in durability between ‘pure’ carbon and fiberglass?
http://www.wernerpaddles.com/
SKAGIT CF - “Carbon Fiber reinforced nylon, injection molded blades” $185, 30.5 oz
OVATION - “buoyant, full carbon, blade” $510, 18.5 oz
CAMANO - “Fiberglass blade” $285, 26.75 oz
https://eddyline.com/
Mid Swift - “blades are constructed from multiple layers of aircraft grade fiberglass and other specialized fibers” $250, 25.8 oz
https://aquabound.com/
“our blade options include: fiberglass reinforced nylon, carbon reinforced nylon, compression molded fiberglass, and compression molded carbon. All great materials, but you’ll see that one of the biggest differences comes down to weight. Fiberglass reinforced nylon being the heaviest of those options working our way to compression molded carbon which is the lightest. If you’re looking for durability, consider looking at our paddles that have carbon reinforced with nylon blades. If you’re looking for blade patterns that will radiantly stand out on the water, check out our compression molded fiberglass”
Carbon fiber is strong, stiff and light, but has relatively low abrasion resistance. Fiberglass handles abrasion much better, which makes it a better material for protective blade tips and edges.
Since my OP, I’m understanding a lot more about the different paddles and technologies, thanks to everyone! I wanted to post a recent comparison between Aqua-Bound, Eddyline/Swift, Werner, and Wilderness Systems, just because that’s who I’ve been looking at. I KNOW that weight doesn’t tell the whole story, but these paddles are as similar as possible in functional purpose. In the end, I ended up ordering a pair of the Eddyline/Swift fiberglass/carbon paddles which I plan to try out on “Black Friday”.
A great many paddle makers buy their carbon shafts from Chinese pultrusion plants, so those are almost all identical ( as much as Chinese manufacture allows) in weight. Most carbon blades are vacuum bagged over foam, versus injection molding for all nylon based blades.
Carbon is stiff, light and very brittle. Racers that use carbon replace them often. A carbon reinforced nylon blade will last a lot longer. I have an old Kevlar sheathed Epic mid wing. They quit making them because they lasted so long.
Not sure that “very brittle” can apply universally. I’ve petted quite a number of rocks with my Lendal, Mitchell and Saltwood Paddles to about the same effect as fiberglass blades. Mileage wear but not impacted in any performance aspect. I’m sure there are engineers here that can speak to the fabric weave, fiber density and shaping processes.
Some might have done better, but carbon does micro-crack and that adds up.
I have mainly only used ZRE paddles in all carbon. They do like being used as oyster rakes. When you crack a seam on one of the foam cored paddles it is over, the foam sucks up a lot of water and starts to break down.
We actually tried them out Saturday, due to weather - which was 70 to 68 but windy. The difference was obvious on the water (from the generic cheap rental-paddles) - we are very happy customers.
It’s not too complicated; if you want high quality fiberglass it’s Werner, but if the price is too much, Carlisle Expedition all glass is the best paddle for the money.
As to the Werner prices, today through Wednesday are the last three days of the Werner Authorized 20% Savings that only happens twice a year. Typically saves you $50-$90 off a Werner FG or Carbon Performance Core Paddle.
