Two Hundred!
I’m going to answer:
“Folks shun instruction because they don’t think they need instruction… 'til later on.”
pretty good, huh?
You da Man
201
then the student has hard job to hoe
unlearning lots of bad habits that his/her muscle memory has cemented firmly in place.
I don’t recall taking lessons till I found myself unable to master controlling my boat. I learned the hard way! Fortunately I had not advanced too far to get any habits good or bad. Now I are an instructor…
I tried the book thing… you know how hard it is to read while treading water?
202
Its much easier
to read a book while scuba diving than reading while treading water.
I have, actually…
– Last Updated: Jul-03-12 5:36 PM EST –
I've taken three of them, and let me tell you most people have no idea the full capabilities of their vehicles. Sound familiar?
Of course, I received the training to be able to respond to conditions that hardly anyone would or want to face, e.g. ambushes and IEDs, but the training was fun, and I can handle just about any driving situation. Again, sound familiar?
In other words, I support your point, if someone isn't going to use their equipment (vehicle or paddlecraft) in that manner, why the condescension to those who don't seek the training for those situations?
This thread and a few others; in particular related to paddleboards, has lowered my opinion of paddlers as a group who I always thought were pretty laid back and accepting.
I Just Wish Someone…
had clued me in about inlets before I tried to paddle one at the worst time. Lawdy! Scared the livin’ hell out of me.
That’s awesome
There is something romantic in my mind about the south pole, and those who work there, especially those who overwinter there. What did you do there?
So do you have a suggestion?
How do we prevent your scenario, assuming that there will always be people who eschew formal training if it is voluntary? Make it compulsory?
More than once
– Last Updated: Jul-03-12 6:05 PM EST –
but always to get out of a ticket.
I did purchase a cool video on evasive driving maneuvers - J-turns, bootlegger's turns, etc. Then my roommate and I rented a car and paid the loss/damage insurance and tried them out in a neighborhood where the streets had been laid out but the houses hadn't been built yet. Fortunately, we didn't wreck it. Ahhh, my mid-20s.
I don’t read that at all
"So, many of the folks here are of the opinion that formal education is not necessary in any way shape or form. "
I don’t read that at all. What I do read is that people think the majority of paddlers out there are paddling SOTs and rec boats on flat water, and depending on their previous water background, may not need formal classes or training to keep doing that kind of paddling safely and enjoyably. If someone wants to start out in or move on to ww, or real sea kayaking, yes, they should take classes before venturing out to that, I don’t think anyone disputes that. What turned so many of us off to willi’s post is it was a blanket statement, not specifying ww or sk, just a general message that disparaged anyone who paddles that hasn’t gotten training. Willi made the mistake of insisting that one side fits all.
and 4.
Some people have taken instruction and appreciate what it did for them and are glad they did.
Written Instructions
I once bought a boat that had a decal with written instructions.
It said not to use the boat under the influence of drugs or alcolhol
So I sold that boat and bought another one.
Reality
There is no way to compel people to behave or have good judgment. Many people are simply short sighted and are only concerned about their convenience,or the way that they see things.
Ironically, I don’t believe that people should be compelled to have formal training (though it’s mandatory in many states to operate a power boat). How would you enforce that?
As I write this I think of the many people whom I’ve met in shorts and a T-shirt who say at the put in that they aren’t planning to tip over and then do. Around here the water rarely gets above 50 degrees and, even wearing a wetsuit, you only get a brief window to effect your reentry before you can find yourself in trouble. If you’ve had no training, formal or informal, and not practiced it you can quickly regret it. Most people survive this, which is not pointed out when this situation turns fatal, though and quickly learn how to cope with this situation.
technique vs. instruction
I have only followed this post a little. I am amazed by the debate it has sparked.
First off…I refrained from this in my original response…the OP asks a legitimate question, and does not deserve the criticism he has received. He may have been able to phrase it in a little more sensitive fashion, but people have been way too sensitive about his question. He makes no claims to be an expert; he really only implies that he considers himself not to be a newbie and that he feels that he is someone who seeks to improve his technique and somewhat criticizes those who don’t seek such self-improvement.
I think someone above put it pretty well though…not everyone considers paddling a sport–they look at it as a means to an end and have as much interest in improving their mastery of the sport as much as one may want to master lawn bowling…well said in my opinion.
Now on to my point that I wanted to make now that I have that aside, and please forgive me if this has already been said…I disagree that learning skills and mastering techniques REQUIRES instruction. There are lots of good videos out there and books. Combine these with a lot of practice on flat water and in conditions and you can become a great paddler.
I will not claim to be an expert and will point that out so that I don’t get flamed here, but several years back I learned to roll on my own using only a video and a book and with no assistance, and learned all the strokes and techniques to pass a 4 star BCU assessment with no previous instruction at all. My point is that I don’t think that people need to pay lots of money and drive long distances to learn to paddle well. Mostly it is practice and determination.
There are an abundance of great videos and books out there. combine that with practice and experience and anyone can become very proficient at this sport if they want to and are willing to dedicate the time to it.
Master the sport and become skilled, or just use paddling as a means to an end…it’s up to you. I will take the former personally but if you choose otherwise, it’s your call (although I don’t understand why you would make that choice).
matt
Legitimate question?
A legitimate question does does not require the inclusion of repeated follow-up remarks consisting of nothing but over-the-top insults and statements that go so far beyond mere exaggeration to enter the realm of total falsehood. Some of these instances have been pointed out. People can cut some slack for “message-board writing style”, we do it all the time here, but the OP is too far gone down his little golden path for that.
Differences among even “experienced”…
… paddlers.
Even those who are “serious” about paddling for one reason or another don’t all see things the same way when it comes to the importance of honing technique. I see examples of this all the time, but the most-recent example was this weekend. I had the chance to paddle my favorite section of an extremely beautiful northwoods river that has some mild whitewater (in truth, at this water level, two of the drops were the biggest whitewater I’ve ever paddled, but that wouldn’t be saying much for some of the people here). Within most of the “bigger” rapids, I tried to do everything BUT cruise straight through. I was ferrying, eddy-hopping (and sometimes missing the really small eddies, so sometimes a frantic ferry would get me away from the rocks just below), surfing, and generally “wasting time” while nearly everyone else, all in kayaks, happily focused their attention in front of them as they paddled down the river. There was one guy in a whitewater canoe who did some of the same sorts of things I was doing, but this river was so far below his skill level and the capabilities of his boat that it was probably a little boring for him. But he was the only one who always paused a little ways below the rapid so that he could see that I finished playing around without incident and was ready to pour on the coal as needed to eventually catch up with the group. No one else on the trip cared a bit about anything except “making it through without tipping” and “continuing downstream to the take-out.”
I had my first “out-of-boat experience” in years too, as a result of choosing a line that looked more challenging than some of the others. Just below a steep spot on a ledge was a big diagonal wave (which of course I wasn’t able to see until reaching the point where backing out wasn’t an option), and it did what diagonal waves like to do. Through a second-hand source, I later heard that the trip leader (who kayaks this river a lot) hadn’t made it though that particular spot without flipping either, at least most times. That was some consolation, but what I REALLY would have liked to do was portage upstream and try the same spot again, especially since I know I could have stayed upright with no trouble if I had been prepared to brace properly. Practicing such a brace “where it’s expected” would be a great step toward making it automatic as it should be, but you can’t get that kind of practice when you are with a group who’s only interest is heading downriver.
well…
As I said, I have not followed this post closely; however, from what I have skimmed of all the response, it appears that most of the insults are from the responses and not from the OP…
Maybe I am wrong, but I am not going to read all one hundred and however many responses. So forgive me if I am wrong.
Just seems there was a whole lot of “how dare he say such a thing” and “who is he to declare himself an expert” kind of posts.
Again, maybe I am wrong about the responses.
The original comment post, however, is a very legitimate statement. If it were not then there would not be so many responses.
Matt
making the curve
Hope you made that curve on the road!
I didn’t read all the posts
I only read those from the OP. There were quite a few.
If you do the same, you’ll see rather clearly he’s calling them names. People who didn’t care to master lawn bowling, what name did the OP call them?
okay then…
Perhaps I am wrong then. I was only going off the original post. If I missed the subsequent posts then I am sorry for not reading more carefully.
Back to my original point though…People can learn to paddle quite effectively through the use of books, videos, and lots of practice. They don’t have to spend the time and money to travel to get instruction as one of the previous posters commented they needed to.
Matt