Whimsy
I agree with you. I should probably be ashamed to say that I’m pretty unmotivated to take kayaking lessons, but I’m more focused on enjoying the outdoors in a relaxed (whimical) way. If I wanted to take up sea kayaking I would most likely take lessons, and I readily admit that what keeps me off the ocean is lack of skill. I’m happy with several decades of outdoor experience, a moderate level of skill in the woods, on the water, etc., and good judgment.
I almost feel like I’m coming out of the closet and committing sacrilege.
you seem
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Really distraught about this. I'm sorry not many agree with you on this.
As far as the new paddlers getting in trouble. Some people get themselves in trouble no matter what the activity, and no amount of lessons is going to help this.
Btw, roll reversal. The other day I was paddling and ran into a fellow in a rec boat who apparently works for a fancy lodge and he gives tours to rich folks in kayaks. So after this guy tells my friend and I about his long paddles (12 miles) and all the places we should go, he proceeds to look at my wing paddle and says "that paddle sure has alot of cup in it." I guess I won't be taking lessons from that guy.
Also, don't be scared to tell people they are doing something wrong, my favorite comment to the folks I see coming out of this rental area is, "if you turn that paddle over it works alot better."
Ryan L.
First thing
I do when I get someone who wants to paddle is put them in the immersion gear and pfd and, before hauling out the boats, put them in Monterey Bay. I tell them, “this is the worst thing that can happen to you all day, so if you can handle this, relax, listen, watch, and learn.”
I tend to get excellent results and I think this step is a significant part of those results. If folks are frightened or anxious, the ability to learn and react to conditions goes way down.
What seems to be missing in paddling is something that is common in other sports. Fishermen, for example, tend to consult others about baits, locations, and methods before making a first cast. Often, this type of casual instruction is missing in paddling. Even when we see someone on the water we think is heading for trouble, we, as a group, may mumble ala Richard Dreyfus, “You’re all going to die,” but I seldom see a fellow paddler stop and say, “You should probably portage past that spot in the river,” or “I don’t think you should be 2 miles from shore in these conditions unless you want to swim back that far.”
Should we? Even when we know that our input is, often, both unwelcome and likely to produce defensive rather than receptive behavior? Having made those type of recommendations, I can tell you that they were not always positively received (even when I was proven correct only a few moments later). We have all said nothing to paddler who is unprepared for the current conditions and seen them return safely (and they usually do).
Yeah, there are negative results to us, and the sport in general, when communities overreact to a rescue event, but you cannot expect novices to have the skills and judgement required to avoid difficult situations. They simply don’t have the tools required. We have all gone out into conditions that were a bit beyond our skills, sometimes intentionally, since this is a requirement for learning to handle those same conditions. If we, who have the skills and judgement sometimes make mistakes in our choices, how can you expect a novice to even know what it is that they don’t know?
This is why organizations like the Coast Guard exist.
Rick
Really Loved Your Post
For you expressed it so well. Thank you.
a few thoughts
concerning your first thoughts on instruction.
Yes, many people take instruction for everything from golf to swimming but few become competent. They take enough instruction to have fun. Sea kayaking is much the same way.
35 years ago on the west coast there were not many sea kayaks available. Eddyline, Natural Designs, Pacific Water Sports and a few brit boats would show up now and then. A few shops sold boats or you went to the manufacture and got a boat. Almost everyone getting involved in the sport was athletic and thought of sea kayaking as being one of their primary sports. They wanted to get good and have fun and be safe (somewhat).
Now, kayaking is pushed as something the average person can do. And the great thing is that most people can kayak to one degree or another.
The problem is that in our country if a company is not growing it is considered by many to be failing. Boats designed for people that want to get very good are a very small market. Because of this most of the kayaks sold today are recreational or high-end recreational boats sold to people that might not be particularly athletic and have little desire to get good at something that takes some effort to get good at. This is not necessarily bad if people used the kayaks in conditions they were designed for. Most of the ad copy for almost every kayak today is that the kayak is well suited for anything from day trips to multi day and almost perfect for everyone from beginner to expert.
If the rec boat is sold from a kayak shop hopefully the shop will explain to the purchaser this is more ad copy than reality. That the $300 rec boat with no bulkheads and has little directional ability is really not suited for cold water areas and is not a good choice for overnight trips or areas with wind and current issues. However, most of these boats are not sold through kayak shops so this information is not passed along to the user.
Even if the user is told these things it does not mean they will believe it.
Another issue is that most people involved in a sport have neither the desire or the time to become proficient. It has always been that way and will always be that way. Most swimmers are not very good (regardless of what they think) and this is also true of golfers, basketball players, bowlers and so on.
With ww kayaking the dangers are obvious. With sea kayaking not so much. With most of the boats sold on line or through big box stores and being rec boats ( I have no problem with rec boats as long as the end user is aware of the limitations) the safety issues are seldom mentioned.
Perhaps also many people in their 20’s today are not as outdoor oriented and athletic as 20 years ago. This is what I see in sea kayaking and my brother who is involved with bike clubs and triathlons says the same thing. Generally the people that are very good to very very good today in kayaking, biking, triathlon, climbing–are better today that 20 years ago but the average person in the sport is not.
my 50 cents
Expect to get saved ?
At what point are people expected to be
responsibility for themselves ?
Why do people feel they can do anything
and there aren’t any consequences ?
I posted an answer but…
… I’ve decided you are just too far “gone”. You actually think that people do dangerous things because they don’t believe there will be any consequences. The answer as to why people do dangerous things when paddling has already come up, and it’s been stated in a way that actually makes sense. Check it out.
Knowing Your Limits
It’s all about knowing your limits – newbie paddlers need to know the limits of their skills and the limits of their boat. Instructors or would-be instructors need to know the limits of their ability to influence or change the behavior of others.
I’m a kayak instructor, but it’s not my “job.” It’s not about the money for me because nearly all of the teaching I do is volunteer.
My motivation is helping people be safer and helping them have more fun by paddling more efficiency and getting the most out of their effort.
Most people would “benefit” from lessons but they don’t necessarily “need” them because most stay within their limits even when they don’t know what their limits are.
i had a friend that let me go in one of
his kayaks before I ever got one. After I got my own, I went out several times, trying to get used to handling the kayak, before I ever dared to try to fish out of it. Again, Im still in my first summer of kayaking and fishing, so every outing is a learning adventure. I talekd another friend into getting a kayak a few weeks ago, and we have gone out paddling several times together but as of yet, I havent did any fishing with him. We are planning our fist fishing outing for Monday afternoon,hes been out enough noe to have learned pretty much how to maneuver the kayak… now its time to start dragging in a fish or two.
Usually pointless
to throw anything of substance to trolls, but in this case some of the responses, including yours, have been interesting.
While the troll will deliberately never get it, just to keep the pot stirred, there is some beneficial information on this thread for others.
Here’s where I get to be a nanny
Bad strokes, upside down paddles and going crooked are annoying on the water, but rarely constitute safety hazards unless someone has gotten blown offshore somehow and can’t get back.
But ability to handle a capsize is crucial and usually quite inadequate among newer paddlers. They tend to focus on paddling as the foundation skill, not handling unexpected problems. We see this both inland and along the coast.
So figure that one or two new paddlers are out in the typical big cockpit starter boat and there is a capsize well out from shore. Could be a surprise blow, could be reaching for a camera, it happens. It could be way too heavy to practically tow to shore that distance, even on the off chance one of the paddlers has to stuff to do it.
We have run into way too many paddlers who admit they have been paddling for quite a while and have never figured out how to manage this situation. We take as many of them as we can get to do this out to local ponds, or into the cove where we rent in Maine, and show them how to do self and assisted rescues.
Anyone want to guess how many of them walk away from that first session able to reliably get themselves back into their boat, alone or assisted? Maybe a third. The majority of folks we have done this with take a couple of sessions to be able to take care of a problem at all, I can name some who paddle solo and had to reform their thought process about more expansive trips after three and four sessions of not being able to get back into their boat.
We also find out lots of information about how well the boats help - or not - the paddler. One popular manufacturer around here has RDF’s for the perimeter line that will just about always pop out when a less limber paddler (many of us older folks) puts a lot of pressure on them to get back over the boat. We have seen people struggle with rec boats and, even if they do get back in, they are so exhausted by the effort that a second capsize while re-entering would be the end of their abilities.
Then there is the classic story from a fellow paddler - was paddling Lake George and saw an upside down hull out in the middle. Went to see what it was and a guy had managed to capsize in a sea kayak, but had never learned how to self-rescue. He was hanging out there, in the middle of an area plied by pretty inconsiderate motor boat operators in a boat that looked a lot like a whitecap, figuring that if he waited long enough someone would come and rescue him. He’d been out there for at least half an hour when our fellow paddler spotted him. By then anyone with minimal self-rescue skills would have been back in their boat and two miles up the lake.
This is a completely unnecessary problem if people focused on managing incidents in kayaks rather than how fast they can paddle in a straight line. Unfortunately it is difficult to get people to think this way.
Re-entry/self-rescue is one of the
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skills that should be acquired by boaters who hope to advance in the activity, no doubt about that. So is edging, leans, paddling in following seas, surfing, beach landings and departures in surf, solid braces, more advanced strokes, etc. Not to mention understanding tides, currents, weather, wind, reading tiderips, navigation, knowing how to avoid shipping lanes, etc. You can spend a lot of time learning those skills, and as I said before, formal instruction is one way to get it. But finding a good group to paddle with and growing those skills gradually and naturally is as good if not a better method, and for one reason alone...it can help build good judgement skills by seeing examples.
One thing I have found interesting is perspective on seakayaking vs. rec boat or WW kayaking. As an illustration, I took several of my seakayaking friends out to learn WW a couple of years ago. While setting shuttle at the takeout, an old acquaintance recognized me and asked where I'd been the last couple of years, had I given up boating? I said nope, just doing seakayaking. She paused for a moment then said, "Seakayaking? Man, that's some crazy sh*t, we aren't doing that!" then headed off for the local class III/IV run. At the put-in I saw another one who said exactly the same thing. Now both of them can hit multiple rolls getting boiled in Class IV, but they thought seakayaking was crazy!
The difference, I guess, is the distance and the fact that one must use good judgement to know one's abilities in whatever anyone chooses to do. Lessons can teach you skills, but good judgement is either inherent, or a matter of natural selection. If you have the right attitude and paddle with a good group, that becomes part of your philosophy to judge ability according to conditions, skill and equipment. If an hour or two's instruction by anyone can teach that in lieu of building simple paddling skills over time, then that instructor is more zen master than paddling teacher.
No doubt, some basic skills are necessary to even start. How to do a first steps forward stroke, a wet exit and hold on to the boat are the most basic of skills. But instilling common sense in anyone is beyond the scope of most paddling instruction. You have it or you don't.
Guns!
Now you’re saying we need guns in our kayaks or canoes? Maybe for the HIGH cost of training police to protect us from muggers in kayaks trying to run off with our dry bags.
Training is ok, practice is better, and more time spent in the sport is even better. Keep your damn guns out of this sport!
Well said (n/t)
ACA and BCU
Were they around when the canoes and kayaks were created? Were those people that were creating these craft properly trained by certified instructors?
Life is what it is and it is about risk and risk is always present. You can practice skills with your friends and get just as much out of it as with an instructor and get it right and you may be surprised that you might be observed and be teaching others not actually on the water. You might be even be promoting the sport by doing it. You may have something those elite instructors can never give you…the genes of your ancestors that created these craft in the past.
Indigenous paddlers did/do instruction
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If you do any homework at all, you will find that there has always been a distinct instruction and training component that is a part of Greenland and other cultures that are kayak-dependent. It is managed by better and older paddlers transmitting skills and knowledge to the kids, and starts quite young, but it is training. It is often handled as play, with games, and the kids are brought thru with a very cautious eye. People who have gone up there for Greenland competitions have often seen these sessions, and it's not hard to find videos on the web.
It challenges belief that other native cultures did not have similar habits in imparting paddling skills, along with hunting, fishing and whatever other things the tribe needed to stay alive.
Whether that instruction happens from a formal organization or a well-organized ad hoc group doesn't really matter - it's the chip on the shoulder attitude from people about learning to paddle safely that is the problem. The reality is that most of us do not have parents or elders that can teach us this stuff, nor is it incorporated into the day to day habits growing up, so one way or another it is likely to come from an organization. My uncles and aunts and parents were all quite bright people, but not one of them had to know how to do a really good deep brace as part of their growing up or college education.
Re the Greenland populations, there were also break points in who was considered to be qualified to do the higher risk stuff like hunting seals from kayaks. Since the hunters were often sewn into their boats and had to chase the prey thru unpredictable conditions, only those with the highest likelihood of rolling and the best boat handling skills even did that. There were built-in levels of sound judgment that don't exist in a looser group of boomers with the bucks to buy a $4000 kayak.
For reasons that I can't fathom, modern paddlers particularly younger guys (I know that sounds sexist but I have enough white hair to say it) get wildly offended if someone suggests that they devote fairly minimal attention to learning how to paddle safely. But no complaints about any number of other things they end up spending some time learning in their lives. If everyone with this attitude were willing to get into trouble where no one can see them, it's like the tree falling in the forest. It doesn't affect anyone else so who cares. But the one dramatic incident from someone being where they should not have been on the front page of a newspaper can affect access and policy for everyone else.
There is a bill that has come up every year now in Massachusetts for several, and has to be beat down every session costing kayakers time and money. That bill is based on a single incident when two young girls went out in deep fog in rec boats, got carried out to the end of Monomoy Island and were both lost. One incident, that was based on ignorance about safety, and the darned impact just goes on for years later.
Guilty , guilty, guilty
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Yeah, I'm a troll !
Trolling for insight into the psyche of newbies
Attack me if it makes you feel better but I think
the discussion was quite insightful on many levels.
Some have admitted to the abundance of paddlers without
a clue of which side of the paddle to use, or how
to go straight, or that a PFD is your best friend.
I've helped get "education" off the ground in a
community pool only to see it fail several years
later due to lack of interest.
The amount of new paddlers in the area didn't fall off,
just the desire to actually learn something died.
The psychology of "common sense" is interesting to me.
People seem drawn to the cool factor of kayaking
yet seem unwilling to put time into getting proficient
relying on others to pick up their slack/sloth.
Finding a group with seasoned paddlers that regularly
get together and go out for an hour or two is an
excellent way to learn and get exposure to all aspects.
The sad thing there are numerous great paddlers
who simply won't do group paddlers or assist,
simply because they don't want to deal with the
ineptitude and apathetic dumbness "some" newbies
who show up exhibit, poisoning the entire process.
Learning "hard knocks", with first hand experiences,
seems to be the lessons that stick in peoples mind.
COST is definitely a factor, as people seem to
want entry into the sport for almost nothing.
With nothing "vested" , loosing it all, including
their life, never seems to enter their mind.
Love me or Hate me
- I still thank you all for participating
Thank you too
And keep plugging away.
Plug at what ?
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What should I plug away at " Oh Master of the Waves "
http://bit.ly/MrPlugger
Technique of Course
Keep plugging away at it, for it will pay considerable dividends. Loved reading all the excellent contributions on this topic.