I’m just pleased as punch to see all the
B&B’ers, never ones to pass up a good food fight at home, who came over to play and added a tone of civility to the discussion, besides seeming to have some experience and insight into actual paddling!
(OK, back to our swamp gang…;^)
Just got back from paddling
The lagoon at Carmel River State Beach. Saw the biggest night heron.
Very calm, very nice.
Rubric of Ruin
Why don’t you live consistently with your own philosophy?
Slowerpaddle talked to the people, talked to the deputy. So what? NOT YOUR PROBLEM. His choice, his life, his consequences. He’s an adult. I don’t get where you get off on telling other people (read slowpaddler) what they should or should not to do. Especially when you claim that’s exactly what you DO NOT DO.
The difference is…
…that I’m merely expressing my opinion and busybodies are getting busy actively meddling in people’s business that really should not concern them in the least. I’d think in of all people Americans would cherish the value of free will and choice - from what I’m reading here it looks more like a something out of USSR and Yugo history (something I have experienced first hand) - an assembly of people whose sole purpose in life is to observe and report on those who disagree or try to go their own way.
There is a big difference in going out and putting one’s nose into people’s affairs without being asked and saying it should not be done, but the meaning of it is lost on socialists who view the “community” above the individual and deem individual’s choice subservient to the “greater good” - in this case "greater good being everyone getting instructions on how to paddle.
There is a lesson in history - the more you tell people what to do, the more they are included to disagree with you. The only thing willi’s rant has achieved is that LESS people will take up instruction, NOT more.
Insulting people have never made them into friends or helped them, but obviously that was never the point here.
that’s nice
– Last Updated: Jul-02-12 5:47 PM EST –
OTOH when someone who is lilydipping tells me they're content to do so, I believe them. It's pretty easy.
I don't think that I'd buy that most RESCUE attempts come for lilydippers. They come from the inexperienced being out of their element. The two aren't synonymous unless you make them so.
Lastly I'd say that the fact that these two people drifted away under your watch says more than you meant it to.
question for you celia
What do you when you get in a rear skid and can’t regain control of your car?
Wait: you don’t know?
You never took a defensive or competitive driving course?
Why not?
You’ve never even approached the point of losing traction from the rear tires?
this post is contradictory
– Last Updated: Jul-02-12 5:26 PM EST –
Everyone who has ever lifted a paddle was once a newbie. So obviously there are plenty of newbies who don't shun instruction. I'd venture to say the problem is with those who have learned enough to feel proud and be dangerous.
Something else: the first time I capsized my rec boat I was all alone. I was momentarily startled - startled! - until I realized that I would have had a tougher time staying in the boat than in getting out.
None of this happened on my expedition of the Aleutian Islands, because for some reason something told me I wasn't quite ready (I think there was an ACA instructor whispering to me from the shrubbery).
he didn’t tell u to forgo circumcision!
ease up!
“something” is flying off “shelves”
…but it sure doesn’t smell like cheap rec boats…
he got beat this weekend!
absolutely
For example, if all you do is lilydip, all you want to do is lilydip, and all you’ll ever try to do is lilydip, then you’re not “limited” at all!
great point and I’ll add another
Comfort in water.
Swimming ability and experience translates to more comfort in water translates to more composure during a capsize.
An instructor taught me that. Honest.
Not ready for what?
What were you not ready for? The cold? The isolation? The lack of convenient fast food? On my first trip to the South Pole I wasn’t ready for the cold and my liver wasn’t prepared for the liquor. Fortunately, on my next trip I was prepared and I’d exercised my liver.
what hostile attitude??!!
MAybe the hostility is deserved for trying to sell one’s services and sport by using fear.
did you take your pungo to the south pol
– Last Updated: Jul-02-12 6:05 PM EST –
Nice try. Most people do not "find themselves" at the south pole. A failure of another kind led you to that predicament.
You can pretend you're completely devoid of common sense, celia, but I've read enough of your posts elsewhere to convince me otherwise.
My 70 year-old dad still takes his SOT out in the pond. He has never taken a paddling class, a rescue class, or a rolling class, because he never intends to venture beyond the pond. He can swim and as he's a CG veteran I'm not about to try to grow my sport or "help" him by shaming and scaring him into a lesson. I doubt he'll end up a rescue stat.
The real problem in our sport is the condition of "recently educated and full of hubris and judgement".
“all wrong”?
I doubt that it is possible to do a forward stroke “all wrong” and if it does happen, it is one or two people every decade at most who are talented enough to do it “all wrong.”
Is the boat moving forward? Is so, there has to be something right happening in the forwards stroke.
Absolutes like saying “all wrong” just make people sound like idiots saying it, especially when we can clearly see that even the person who never saw a paddle or boat before can usually get it at least partly right and anyone who sat in a kayak twice probably got up towards 75% right.
This anger towards beginners and blatant elitism is downright disgusting. I’m going to go out to the lake and be kind to the beginners because they sure are getting a lot of shit from the elitists.
Dave
That’s great
I’m happy for that elderly gentlemen enjoying life.
May he live as long as he wants to.
The bravado of ignorance and not being honest
with ones own limits or abilities kills others
daily on our planet.
Um…
I have, in aggregate, 18 months of Ice time at Amundsen Scott Station (that is located at Lon 90s, also known as the South Pole, Antarctica) between 2001 and 2004 - two summer contracts and one winter over contract. And no, I did not take my Pungo there. I am, however, an ACA Coastal Kayaking and WW instructor.
Stirring the pot…
So, many of the folks here are of the opinion that formal education is not necessary in any way shape or form. If the topic was more specific to WW would the conversation go the same way? the hazards are obvious; waterfalls, holes, fast moving water with strainers, etc. If this was your chosen activity would you simply buy a boat and rush off to the nearest river? some do. Many join a club, take a class or two to decide if they really want to participate in that setting, receive advice and instruction from friends and/or acquaintances and work it out with help from a large body of people over several seasons. Guess what, that is instruction. It’s less formal than going to NOC and taking a class over the course of a few days, but it’s still instruction.
In one of my earlier posts I wrote about a general hostile attitude towards formal instruction and/or instructors, but I don’t get it. Being an instructor (who makes only a $1K or $2K a year from that)perhaps I’m a bit biased. However, most of my instruction occurs, free of charge, through local clubs. In fact, most instructors (the ACA has thousands in their membership roles across many disciplines and sub disciplines and I guarantee that all of them don’t make their living at it) donate their time through local clubs while funding their own training to improve as instructors and paddlers.
Who do you think wrote the books or made the videos that are so often cited here? Instructors. Most of the folks who own the businesses that sell you the equipment that you use on the water, from paddles and boats to drybags and whistles are instructors. The volunteers that work hard to make the local paddling club work are - you guessed it - instructors.
My general take is do what you want. You want to go out and paddle around in your rec boat on the pond, fine. But when you feel good about your abilities and want to up the ante of the venue to, say, the Washington or Oregon coast, the SJI’s, class III WW or even the local reservoir where you’ll encounter boat wakes and larger degrees of fetch, because you’ve managed to not tip over in the pond it’s time to reassess your abilities (I almost said skills but that word is frowned upon) and see if they match the venue.
I endorse instruction, in it’s many forms. I make no bones about it. But I’ve fished a lot of “experienced, intermediate” paddlers out of the wet stuff who thought they were ready for the big stuff be it surf and a rec boat or trying to up their river game, but don’t even know how to cross an eddy line.
This sport is not for the broke - judging from the cost of equipment. Spend a bit on some instruction and join a club, hell, you could probably do both at one time! Paddle with some other people, preferably who are better than you. I love being in a group with people that are better than me, then I get to learn rather than teach.
Finally, if you aren’t interested in improving then stick to your pond. The sea and the river are unforgiving, murderous mistresses and will devour you given half a chance.
worry on…
…those that choose to worry over those that are not worried for themselves, must not have anything better to worry about. So, it stands to reason, if they didn’t worry about them that aren’t worried, they’d have nothing to worry about.