Wilderness Tripping, or what?

Is this time to ask whether this forum is related to Wilderness Tripping— BWCA and Beyond, or whether it is merely a canoe/kayak camping board? Much of what one sees on here has nothing to do with wilderness paddling.

Define wilderness
By some measures there is little of it. Yet the Slates, Algonquin , some parts of Maine do qualify. And those are topics here.

I suggest you seek your own wilderness away from the keyboard.

I do appreciate the advice about Alaska weather this year as I am on my way there for a four week wilderness ( or not as your definition may vary) even though it was not related to a specific trip.

This post belongs on B&B…

– Last Updated: May-27-12 11:16 PM EST –

doesn't it? Or the discussion forum? It certainly does not have anything to do with wilderness tripping.
G2D, go to a mirror and scold yourself for an hour. You'll feel better. ;)

Two surprisingly lame responses
already. And from people who know very well what I’m talking about. Many parts of Maine are fine, but many of the posts on here refer to rivers that make Maine look like untouched, pristine wilderness.

The threads on this forum usually do not refer to, or relate to, wilderness tripping. Kayakmedic, considering your extensive experience, I’m surprised you even show up here.

How about like the BWCA, or beyond?
I might settle for a serious incursion into cabin-ish areas like the Adirondacks or Algonquin. But not something like an overnight in north Georgia.

“Is this the time to ask…”

– Last Updated: May-28-12 8:42 AM EST –


Just let the board be what it is and make the best of it. With rare exceptions - I find this to be a very friendly place. If you don't have something nice or helpful to say don't say anything. If you want to be involved in a board that involves only wilderness traveling then best to try some other boards. The Canadian Canoe Routes site is a good one. But even there many posts are about traveling in areas that do not meet some definitions of wilderness. On the other hand there are many folks here with a fair amount of tripping experience who I am sure would be glad to provide information to you about specific trips you might have in mind or about wilderness tripping questions you might have. Are you thinking about a specific trip?

There IS no wilderness
Go above the Artic Circle. People have been living there for a thousand years! I am going there this summer and guess what…there will be folks fishing, gathering and hunting. There might be one in a thousand miles but there will be evidence of people.

Yeesh. That’s what I mean by there is no good definition of wilderness. Yes I can go canoeing in Maine and not see anyone for two weeks. But is that wilderness or not? By the BDub definition it is. Bdub is hardly wilderness.

For most people wilderness means something different than their everyday environment. And that definition has personal meaning.

I really paddle for me. Not to impress you g2d. I could care less.

Have you nothing better to do than grouse on this site? I am not playing one up.

I have paddling to do.

I’m thinking about getting this forum,
and the other three, to become more useful to everyone. Many are posting on this board with very non-wilderness questions that would get more attention and better answers on the other forums.

Brent’s guidelines for each forum are reasonably clear, but no one uses them.

On trip planning, I always know where to go, because people tell me.

Did I ask for whom you paddle, or
indicate an interest? I’m not interested in why or where people paddle, but why this “wilderness and beyond” board lures people away from where they can get their inquiries answered, possibly by that word “wilderness.” This board could be serving people who actually do multiple overnight trips in relatively remote surroundings, as the guideline implies.

I can tell there’s a failure to communicate when people think I’m pointing to them, personally.

Neutral Corners
Would you two go to neutral corners, or rivers and cool off. I value both your opinions on many paddling subjects. This is getting off topic and too personal.

Yes there are a lot of questions posted on the “wilderness board” that have only to do with camping or tripping. But they do get answered. And perhaps by more knowledgeable folks than the poster might find on other boards. So the questioner sits in the wrong pew; but they are in the right church.

Enjoy the day, and keep posting,


not getting enough attention lately g2d?
How about you stop trolling for attention and get out and paddle?

There’s an idea!

– Last Updated: May-28-12 8:17 PM EST –

Go out and paddle and stop typing. Not much in the way of wilderness typing on your computer.

People are communicating just fine.

Wilderness tripping…
… maybe the place to start is aligning the title with the description. The forum title says:

Wilderness Tripping - BWCA & Beyond

From the Adirondacks to Yellowstone, from Maine to California paddlers are venturing into the wilderness for weekends or extended trips. Meet others, discuss locations, gear, and more!

Wilderness isn’t defined and I’m thinking that a weekend in the “wilderness” is a hard thing to pull off and open for interpretation. A weekend trip is easier and falls within the forum description.

Like g2d I do find this particular message board forum to not usually align with my idea of wilderness and isn’t a place where I go for information, however, the content does usually align with the forum description. It’s tough to find a good place to exchange information with others who go to areas where most do not (my idea of wilderness).

I think that this forum, as is, serves the majority of the fine folks who make Pnet a regular part of their life.



You might want to try some more
consistently controversial forums, to thicken your skin. Kayakmedic and I aren’t about to permanently fall out over one issue.

For all the fine people who show up on pnet, there’s a higher proportion than I’ve encountered on any other board who just will not abide comments about what appears on a forum. Go to any other paddling forum I know, post on the wrong board, and if the administrator doesn’t correct you, several others will.

I don’t care anymore about occasional misplaced posts, but this particular forum is drifting far from its original purpose, and value.

I guess I could wait until all of the Emperor’s clothes are gone.

Beside the point, both of you.
If you don’t see an issue here, or just don’t care, then why show up here at all? Go paddle yourself.

I’d say about half aligns with

Brent could redefine it as a forum for any sort of extended canoeing and camping. That might fit. I just read a report of a three day canoe camping trip on a canal/river in the Netherlands, and by no stretch of the imagination was it wilderness. But they encountered many of the same issues.

I got a chuckle out of a recent post that asked for wilderness day trips. If you can get in and out in a day, then I suppose it might be some eastern “wilderness area” but it no longer sounds to me like wilderness tripping.

I plead guilty
I guess I’m an offender since I have been soliciting camping recommendations near Washington DC, which is most definitely a bearucratic wilderness, but maybe not a paddling one. I had the good fortune to do a trip in BCWA a while back and I hope to again someday. But for the time being, the wildest place I’ll be paddling probably will have “State Park” somewhere in the title.

It did actually cross my mind that maybe I was posting in the wrong spot and that the paddling spots I had in mind weren’t epic enough to really count as “wilderness tripping”. But what other forum should I have posted in? I didn’t want to argue with anyone, so B&B was out. My question certainly wasn’t fishing or asking for partners. The Advice forum is all “what’s the best kayak/canoe for me?” and “how do I fix my XYZ?” (althought the “kayak wholesale” thread on there is pretty entertaining) The Paddler’s Place is all “rudder vs. skeg” debates, musings about trip reports, and links to news stories about dudes who drown and weren’t wearing a PFD. So this forum still seemed like the best spot. I reasoned that localish trips are still within the scope of “and Beyond”.

Sometimes it is a best-fit choice
I’ve posted questions about non-wilderness area camping before because this forum is the closest match to the kind of advice I sought.

Calling it “paddle-camping” would avoid problems about defining wilderness, I agree. However, it doesn’t seem to be an actual problem for most people who come to Pnet.

at least according to Wikipedia, is defined by the extent of human impact and development, not how long it takes to get there:


by that standard (and also allowing that places are sometimes returned to being free of development), there are a surprising amount of places within a few hours of DC that would shock some people upon seeing how wild they are.

You might actually get a better response
on Advice, Discussion, or People & Places. This forum has gotten slow, and I think one reason is the discrepancy between the guideline (quite good and well-stated) and what people read in the “Wilderness” threads. We’ve lost most of the “wilderness” canoe campers who are still on myccr and even Song of the Paddle.