Jack…
What part of Lake James do you paddle? We have a camper at Lake James Landing, just got it this year. We’ve canoed as far “up” the North Catawaba as one can go, but we’re considering a paddle down in the spring. This fork of the Catawba comes into the lake directly at the campground. I doubt we could make the last 5 miles of that trip in our 14-15’ kayaks, but they’ll be great for the lake.
I didn’t say I don’t wear a PFD all …
…the time.
I don’t wear it when I deem I don’t need it, and that is my decision to make.
I don’t do a roll because I have been there and done that back in my white water days and now choose to do self rescue if need be.
If you consider me dangerous, then when and if we meet up don’t paddle with me.
It won’t hurt my feelings.
I’ll stick by what I said about the down bags, and if you will take note a lot of others felt the same about down.
Cheers,
JackL
It has often been said
that we are all between our next swim. I would not paddle in water I wouldn’t feel safe swimming in for up to 30 minutes. I wear a dry suit and roll & swim every time I hit the water. Last weekend it was getting harder to break through the ice inland, but luckly Lake MI stays open all winter.
40 degree water and 40 degree air temperatures have left many people dead. Test your gear in the worst conditions you might paddle in.
We paddle the whole lake at
different times.
The other day we put in at the Black Bear Access, and paddled up to the Catawba and back.
Are you in that neck of the woods at all during the week?
Cheers,
JackL
Sometimes…
…I stay down there during the week in the summer. The campground closes from November till April, we can go in anytime, just can’t stay in the camper once the water is shut off. I’s only about 45 minutes from our home in east Asheville, so were there almost every weekend during the open season.
We’re thinking about Lake Julian for cold weather practice, the water there is always warmer due to the power plant.
Do you paddle any slow rivers in NC/SC? I did a 3 day Lumber River trip last month…that’s what got me hooked on kayaks.
Easy JackL
C’mon man, don’t be so defensive. It’s all light hearted on my part. I was just pointing out the irony. Why would you do a self rescue if you can roll? Hey, I’m OK with you doing whatever you feel is a safe scenario for you.
Longjohns, Top & NeoFleece Beanie
I just got back from my first unpleasant weather paddle this winter wearing NRS longjohns, NRS microfiber shirt, a bombergear splash or semi-dry (wet?) pullover top and a fleece lined neoprene skull-cap. Neoprene and fabric Wal-Mart water shoes. Fingerless wool fishing gloves (old).
Air temp was low to mid forties, water temp mid to upper forties, windy and drizzling to medium rain. The outfit was not warm enough for the ambient conditions, I got cold after just a few miles, and we had to cut short our lake/creek exploration.
I never did reach the hypothermic stage of uncontrollable shivering, so I feel like kind of a wimp for turning around this morning. My fingertips were pretty cold/numb off and on during the paddle. I’d sealed the sleeves of the top/jacket over the gloves, and, when wet, the wool wicked the water down my left arm. My feet only regained proper feeling after I returned home and took a shower.
Next time I won’t go out in cold rain without a sprayskirt, will at least be wearing polypro thermals under the longjohn, will have better protection for my hands and feet. Gloves will go outside the sleeve. Live and learn.
Relief zippers are good.
Soyez Sage,
Chris
Be Glad You Didn’t Take A Swim…
water temp in the upper 40’s is pretty serious stuff. Swiming with what you had on could have posed a very serious situation (depending on how far from shore and a place to warm up).
I go out year round in New England. Water in the 40’s is getting into the winter range. I have a whole range of immersion gear from full (surfing) wetsuits, to farmer johns, drytops, neo hoods of different thickness, neo and drygloves, and drysuit. Once water hits the 40’s, I’ll likely be in a drysuit along with a minimum of 3 mm hood and gloves.
If you don’t like, don’t want to spend the same amount of money, or have other more extreme considerations (surfing/rock gardening), you can go with wetsuits (NOT farmer johns). X15 (Tony) goes out in the same conditions I do and he favors different layers of neo wear.
sing
Buy used and bargain hunt
I found drybibs on ebay for $70 and a drytop at Sierra trading post for $50. I use $20 fleece lined neo gloves ($10 at Walmart), fleece lined socks neo socks and booties about $30 and a lined neo hood over a fleece hat. I found I was comfortable in 33 deg water and 30 deg air during a swim. My life is well worth the $200 spent.
I picked up an OS drysuit made of breathable nylon with latex booties for about $150 on Ebay that Jun uses.
Full wetsuit vs Farmer John /drytop comb
I’m curious if a full wetsuit is warmer/safer than a farmer john/drytop combo?
I’ve never tried a full suit but swimming in my farmer john and drytop I don’t get much water moving thru the suit. Seems to me that would make the FJ /drytop at least as good as a full suit of equal weight.
Anybody tried both?
Tommy
Check out this stuff!!
Here are a few things that I have on sale and that are just good deals.
-Palm Wetsuit 3.5mm - $99(best one out for the $$)
-Bombergear the Bomb Drytop was $225 now $168.50 (2 small 1 medium left).
-Bombergear Isotope Long sleeve splash top was $125 now $100(all sizes left)
-bombergear poggies were $37 now $29.60(one size fits all)
-Mountain Surf fleece tops left that were $69.95 and are now $52.46(1 large 2 medium)
-Mountain Surf fleece pants were $65.95 now $49.46(1 small)
-Mountain Surf thermo stretch pants were $119 now $79.96(1 small)
and I actually have several other things that I have on sale. If you are interested or have any quesions, give me a call toll free at (800)874-5272 and I would be happy to help.
-Gavin
www.alabamasmallboats.com
I Have And Tried That Combo
depends on the swim… how rough, how long. A couple of seasons ago, late fall, when I first got my Venom. I came out of boat in big surf with the FJ/drytop combo. I was okay swimming in tho’ water got in. It was a cold, cloudy day, and I started to get chill and went back to car for a warmup. I’ve surfed with a full 4/3 wetsuit for six hours straight in a waveski (totally exposed to the water around me) and was fine for the whole session. Last week, I had the 4/3 on, a .5mm top underneath, and a drytop over that. I overheated and had to go back to the car to take the drytop off. Water temp in upper 40’s and air temp around 50.
sing
Me too, but
– Last Updated: Dec-04-05 11:06 AM EST –
Swimming wasn't on my to do list, of course it never is when it happens (I probably do need to plan a couple of swims in paddling conditions).
The boat I paddle - Pouch E68 - while tippy for a folder, is still absurdly stable, secondarily. Thing that tripped me out was that I was wearing all that stuff, did not go for a swim, and was still really cold. I'm the guy who'll sit on the curb with friends eating Good Humor products while it's snowing.
Today's paddle was a learning experience - next time I'll have an idea of what to do differently. This time I did carry thermals and other warming stuff in a drybag. Since I have two sets of pretty good polypro thermals, I'll cut one set down to knee-length shorts and elbow lenght short sleeves to wear under the longjohns - that plus some Chota light mukluks and pogies or gloves ought to improve my cold weather endurance.
The neoprene wetsuit was a little chilly on my legs, but my trunk did not get at all cold.
Speaking of bargains, I got the longjohns, neoprene cap, and bombergear splashtop for a total of $100.00 including shipping from a guy who posted at NRS Gear Swap.
I wasn't able to find those fleece-lined neoprene gloves at Wal-Mart when I looked for them, yesterday. Those wool fingerless gloves I bought 12 years ago in Portland finally wore through while paddling today, and will require a Viking Funeral next time we empty the burnbox.
In spite of the miserable weather, the cold, I had a good time paddling and exploring.
C.
Hi Snal
I just re-read your thread and you are getting informed responses from many.
First of all, paddle any time you have the opportunity with JackL, you will learn more from very few others.
I went out for a short paddle this afternoon, I paddled about 8 miles in light winds, mostly sunny, and a light chop of less than a foot. I borrowed a trick from Kudzu and company and had a small thermometer dangling in the water. The Air temp was 47 and the water temp was 48.
IR light splash top, IR semi-dry pants, fleese long johns and top, lined seal skin sockes, a pair of nylon socks under, a beenie, and seal skin gloves kept me dry and warm.
We will have a few days which will be colder than today over the next few months but not many and not a lot colder. The water temps here wont drop much below the high fourties. I plan to skip the coldest days and concentrate on the nicest days during the winter. Be aware, be prepared, but you dont have to dress for the North Pole if you plan to paddle NC.
Happy Paddling,
Mark
I love the Lumber, and the …
Edistoe.
My wife and I raced the Lumber River 40 miler last month in our C-2 cruiser.
I raced up in your neck of the woods on the French Broad River in the spring in my kayak.
Every year we race our Jensen rec canoe on the Edistoe in Orangeburg.
I think the white sand beaches on every turn in the Lumber make it one of the best camping rivers in the state.
We also enjoy the New River, and a lot of the smaller unknown (our secret) rivers over here in Mitchell County.
Cheers,
JackL
Thanks Mark
I’ve been making a list of paddle places in NC, SC, and Tenn…I’m itching to get on the water.
This is a great place to find info on gear and such. I need time on the water to practice. We’re both new to kayaks, we’ve had the canoe for years, but no formal, or informal paddling training.
I just found that Warren Wilson College (just up the road from us) has pool time for kayaks, and a local paddle group used to meet there, but apparently the group meetings have slowed a bit.
Secret rivers eh?
Funny, I was born there! Spruce Pine to be exact. How long have you been in the area? Everybody knew my Grandaddy “Mac” from Beaver Creek.
Toe River Maybe?
The main Toe is good, but not secret
– Last Updated: Dec-04-05 6:03 AM EST –
The North Toe is delightful when the water is up. Put in at the VFD on 19 and take out near Beams on 19.
The South Toe with it's headwaters on Mt Mitchell has the clearest water in the state.
When the water is up in the spring or like it was in the middle of this summer. put in at Carolina hemlock campground and take out at Mullendorf (spelling) campground, and in some of the deep pools you will be guaranteed to see some Hellbenders swimming around the boulders
You need either a rec kayak or a poly or royalex canoe to do either of them.
We are on Little Rock Creek. Stop in next time you are in this neck of the woods.
Looks like crummy paddling weather for this coming week.
Cheers,
JackL
How Much of this Advice
applies to late Fall, Winter or early spring canoeing on creeks and small rivers in the Midwest? Precip is lowest here during the winter and water levels are generally on the low side. There is no whitewater, just pool and gentle riffle stuff.
We wear warm clothing and bring a dry bag with clothing in case of the rare capsize that is most likely to occur entering our canoes near a forced portage.
We don’t judge that we are taking a big risk by not wearing wet or dry suits. Most of us are at least intermediate paddlers.
So … ???
Your Judgement Call…
(which you seemed to have already made) about your skills, the conditions, the venue and how far you need to go to get warmed up.
Folks can offer perspectives (usually from their own set of judgement call based on the above factors) but ultimately, it’s your life and that of the other members in your group that are on the line. However, pushed for an opinion, I personally would not go out dressed as you. I like to play in rougher conditions and am always wet out there. However, that’s how I know getting wet and being underdressed is, at BEST, very uncomfortable…
sing