Hey y’all, first post here but been into yaks for awhile now. I’ve finally upgraded from my Old Town Loon 120 after about 7 years (I outgrew a rec kayak a long time ago haha) and picked up a used WS Tsunami 135. Well, I haven’t even had it out on a paddle yet but happened to come across a used Dagger Alchemy 14L for what looks like a decent deal.
Would it be worth picking up, trying both and selling the one I dislike more? The issue is the Dagger is about a 2hr drive away one-way.
Here’s some info to help you get an idea of what might suit me more:
-5’7” 150lbs (male, athletic build) The Tsunami fits me like a well-fitting glove that you wouldn’t want ANY tighter
-Lake paddling, fishing, as well as multi-day/overnight lake paddle routes
-Not near the ocean but like the idea of an ocean kayak even if it’s overkill for my useage
So my main questions:
Tsunami 135 or Alchemy 14?
What are kinda the min/max paddler body sizes for the Alchemy 14S and 14L? (If the 14S would be a better fit for me I’d probably stick with my Tsunami)
Thanks and happy paddling!
You would be at the low weight end of the Alchemy, but perhaps not out of bounds. If you watch some of the older Neptunes Rangers videos (https://www.youtube.com/@NeptunesRangers), Mark Berger, Greg Berman, and Toni Johnson all used 14.0Ls and they were maybe 160 lbs each. They liked the fit better than the S. They obviously made he bat work in advanced conditions (likely not conditions you are looking to paddle in).
Dagger sold many more of the Alchemy Ls than the Ss. The Ss may have been smaller volume, but they got this by dropping the deck down lower. Still had very large cockpit opening and width, which made the S not that good for smaller paddlers. My 5’, 105 lb partner had an S for a while, but couldn’t get a grip with her thighs/hips to say in it when she practiced rolling.
I discovered kayaks and kayaking only about 6 years ago, but went in eyeball deep. In that short time I have bought 41 kayaks and re-sold 36 of them. I have learned a few things about them and what functions and “missions” certain types fulfill better then other types.
My opinion (for what little it’s worth) is that if you want a touring kayak to take out for camping trips over 2 days long, moving up to a 15.5 -17 foot kayak is probably better. Also the wider and shorter kayaks don’t let you “lock in” as easily if you are from 5’ 4" to about 5"8 tall. (I see you are from your post) Not that they are bad, but a kayak with a beam from 21 inches to 25 inches will let you get your thighs under the braces better then a wider one, when paddling in tall waves, and/or if you want to learn to roll.
The 13.5 to 15 foot range is outstanding for 2 days and less, in conditions with waves of 2 feet and less and also for trips where covering a lot of miles is unimportant. And of course, the more rocker a kayak has and the shorter the hull length the better easier it maneuvers. So for pocking around inlets and convoluted shore lines a shorter kayak is easier to use.
There are no perfect kayaks because to gain any performance in a given area you need to give up other things in other areas. That’s why sea kayaks can’t turn with WW and rec kayaks, but that’s also why short wide kayaks can’t easily cover 20-30 miles a day for weeks at as time and still carry gear and food enough to be OK for such a trip.
None of this may be "news’ to you.
But reading your first post I just get a feeling that a 13.5 foot kayak may end up being still a bit too limited for the future activities you will gravitate towards.
As a side note: Where are you and where are the waters you’d use the new kayak in?
So likely I’d be fine with either the Alchemy 14L or S and either will be a roomier cockpit than my Tsunami 135.
Do you have any experience with the Tsunamis? Would the Alchemy be worth the 2hr drive out or should I just stick with my Tsunami for now just to get my arse into a touring kayak and learn more about what my wants/needs in one?
Dude 41 kayaks in 6 years is HARDCORE, hats off haha! Certainly makes your opinion worthwhile, also very informative post although no I wouldn’t say any of it is necessarily “news” to me.
I completely agree that the 15.5-17ft yak would be more suitable, especially when it comes to the multi-day trips. That said, I did a 4 day paddle trip in a Kestrel 120 haha. Conditions were mostly favourable with the exception of one pretty gnarly day, which was a fun challenge with that little boat. I’ve also got some good backpacking mileage under my belt so I’m used to packing light which helps.
Honestly though, I’m really looking for the touring/ocean kayak performance in a more compact boat. I think 14-15ft would be the perfect sweet spot for me, my 135 is a little shorter than I’d prefer but it’s the used deal that I came across at the time.
I’m in Saskatchewan, Canada. Yup, prairie boy here haha. So most of my paddling is on the little hidden gems of lakes in the 3hrs north of where I live neighbourhood. The multi-day trip I did was up in the Churchill River area, which I really want to explore more of. Parts of those waters can get pretty wild if you look for it.
I’d LOVE to do some ocean kayaking one day but I doubt the opportunity will really come.
Any opinion on whether I should get the Alchemy? Or should I just get some time in my Tsunami?
I suspect, from what little I know of you and what I know of the Alchemy (I have had 2 Ls over the years - BTW I am 6’ and 220 lbs), that the Alchemy would be a good boat for you, possibly better than the Tsunami. That extra foot of length and volume will all come in handy. One of the few areas I can think of that you might not like is the shorter seat back (barely holds your butt) of the Alchemy - low seat back is pretty much a requirement if you want to wear a skirt or roll.
That said, this Alchemy isn’t the last boat that will be on the market. And the the Loon and Tsunami likely won’t be the last you will own (but maybe you won’t quite reach @szihn numbers). You have the Tsunami now, so you could give it a go for a while as you keep n eye on more local “next boats”.
Oh, the one area you mention that neither boat will do all that well is fishing. You can fish from a sea kayak, but those who do more fishing usually prefer sit on top kayaks. Your Loon may work better for you for fishing than the Tsunami or Alchemy.
Comfort was the other thing I was going to ask… the seat on the Tsunami seems like it should be quite comfy. Comfier than the Alchemy you think? I think I read that the Alchemy pretty much has a back band.
I will very occasionally need a skirt, but I don’t foresee rolls in my paddling future.
And you’re correct, the Tsunami likely won’t be my last which is why I’m not overly eager to jump on the Dagger unless it’s really worth it.
As for fishing… fair enough, but… tell that to my buddies who have been fishing out of a Delta 17 and a Perception Expression 14.5
Loon’s already gone, made enough off it to pay for my Tsunami. Maybe you didn’t read my full post. I already bought a Tsunami 135, but happened to come across the Dagger a few weeks later for a decent looking deal.
I’m not looking to spend thousands at this point, and I certainly don’t want a fleet haha.
Also don’t want to buy new at this point.
I have so many other hobbies and I don’t get out to do any of them as often as I like.
I’m really not looking for other recommendations, the question of the Alchemy 14L vs 14S has been answered now I’m just looking for some advice on if the Alchemy is worth getting when I just bought a Tsunami.
I do appreciate the input though.
Turns out the Alchemy is at the sellers cabin which is 3hrs from me. Still tempting but that’s a pretty long ways out, and once you add in the fuel cost it doesn’t seem like quite as stellar a deal.
Correct, I still kept the Tsunami. If you didn’t read my full original post basically I bought the Tsunami and then about 2 weeks later I came across the Alchemy for a much better deal than the Tsunami was so I decided to scoop it. I think I’m going to keep both for the summer, get some paddle time in both and sell likely the Tsunami next year. Definitely will be doing some compare and contrast between the two!
I saw that, which is why I hoped you still have it. Essentially very similar boats, with slightly different dimensions. This is a unique opportunity to thoroughly test the designs. The Dagger probably has more rocker to make it easier to turn, while the Tsunami will probably track straighter. Different deck heights and carrying capacity. Keep the one that offers the best ride for your needs. Consider keeping the other for guest paddlers, if you have the room to store.
It’s important when selecting a kayak that you consider whether you need a boat to paddle in a straight line or one that turns on a dime. A boat that can’t track straight without a skeg or rudder canttrack straight without a skeg or rudder. Conversely, a boat that tracks straight without a skeg or rudder doesn’t need a skeg or a rudder.
If you’re not sure, it might seem logical to spring the extra $300 for the feature and just deal with the issues. However, before adding the feature out of caution or getting a sketchy boat figuring the skeg or rudder as a panacea, realize that skegs and rudders are not an asset in shallow water, around seaweed, or in rocky rivers. If you frequent such waters, it may be prudent to opt for the boat with a more versitile design.
