The debate as to which is “better”, I’m not qualified to answer. I also don’t believe there is an answer to this, as they both have pros and cons for different situations and styles. I have limited experience with a GP, and probably compared to many older members here, perhaps limited experience with a Euro blade as well. However, I’m a quick study and am never happy until I’ve mastered something… at which point I need something new to master because it’s lost some thrill, but that’s a different story.
I went out with my boat this afternoon with the intention of finding some wind and getting some exercise. When I arrived at the beach, it occurred to me that the conditions and location were excellent for a semi-scientific experiment. I wanted to know how my speed with a Euro paddle compared with a Greenland Paddle. Simple enough, but there are lots of variables involved in answering the question.
Here’s the setup:
Pick a course between two easily recognizable points on shore, approximately 1km (0.62 miles) apart
With each paddle in turn, run the course both up wind and down wind
Repeat three times for each paddle
Boat is my Impex Assateague with about 280 lbs (myself plus camping gear, but no food)
Variables:
Wind - Started around 20kt, backing to about 10kt by the last run Averaging three results from both up wind and down wind paddling within a relatively short span of time should nullify any effect.
Fatigue - One would expect the last runs to be slower than the first due to tiring out. Alternating each run with a different paddle should result in a slow decrease in speeds but the effect will be spread evenly among the two paddles.
Input Energy - Difficult to quantify or control. Suffice to say I was paddling like I meant to get somewhere, but that I had a long way to go. It wasn’t an all out sprint, but sweat was definitely involved and heart rate raised. The final run down wind with GP was likely faster due to thunderstorm coming in quicker than I’d have liked.
Enough rambling. I made a separate track log for each of the twelve runs. They are close enough to convince me they can be compared equally. The black arrow shows wind direction. North is up.
To calculate the results, I took the middle section of each track log between 75m and 825m, as this seemed to include the most consistent speed. It excludes the effects of a slow start up or winding down before the finish, and only gives the section where I’m “in the zone”. Results are tabulated below in km/h and knots, along with the average of all three runs where the paddle and direction were the same.
Conclusions:
There isn’t much difference in speed. I did, however, notice a lot of difference in effort. I found my energy flagging going up wind with the Euro paddle by about half way. Whereas with the GP I could run the entire course and didn’t feel used up by the end. I found running down wind easier with the Euro paddle because the cadence required to keep up was slower. With the GP I had difficulty “windmilling” the paddle quick enough to add my full power to that of the wind. Overall the cadence with GP was much quicker - probably 1.5 to 2 times the strokes if I had to guess.
Before doing this little experiment, I suspected that I was noticeably slower with the GP. This confirms for me that’s not necessarily the case. If I’m slightly slower, I’m ok with that because of the significantly reduced effort to gain the same (or similar) result.
I encourage your thoughtful challenges to the validity of the test and results, but discourage any discussion as to which is “better”.
Different strokes for different folks! May be the euro paddle was too big for a faster cadence. So many variables. May be the GP suited you better. I have no clue never tried GP hope to one day. Expertise with each paddle would come into play also. Was the euro feathered? If so to
what degree?
@PaddleDog52 said:
Different strokes for different folks! May be the euro paddle was too big for a faster cadence. So many variables. May be the GP suited you better. I have no clue never tried GP hope to one day. Expertise with each paddle would come into play also. Was the euro feathered? If so to
what degree?
The Euro paddle is a Nimbus Kiska with 215cm length. There might be smaller, but this more likely sits near the smaller end of the scale. I’ve never liked feathering a paddle, so there is none used in this test. Western red cedar GP was carved by yours truly with dimensions based on my own body and boat.
I have been told by instructors that my forward stroke with a Euro blade is among the best they’ve seen (in the lower levels). Few can keep pace with me, even if I’m not trying. I’ll never claim to be the best, but experience has demonstrated that I’m pretty good.
This is largely the reason I suspected the results would differ so much. It seemed inconceivable that I could get similar speed with such reduced effort. I’m sharing the results because I’m genuinely surprised. Happily so.
Depends on what you call reduced effort if your cadence is 1.5 to 2 times faster. No clue but shouldn’t GP paddle length be what your fingers curl over? What euro paddles did you use? Curious what size & weight are you?
@PaddleDog52 said:
Depends on what you call reduced effort if your cadence is 1.5 to 2 times faster.
It’s hard to believe, I know. It’s taken a long time for me to get to this point. I’ve tried other people’s GP’s before and never liked them. It took me making one suited to my own dimensions, and really spending time with it figuring out how the forward stroke differs.
I’d encourage you to give it a real chance because you might be missing out. But if you decide to keep paddling with a Euro blade, there’s nothing wrong with that either. I think I’ll be using both for a while to come, and perhaps never go totally GP. But I can’t see the future, so I’m not willing to place any bets.
No one around me had one. I paddle alone most of the time except with my honey. Just bought a 210 corryvreckan, have 205 & 215 ikelos. She has 215 kalliste. Guess for.me I would have to buy a GP to try. Wood or composite I have no clue. I see GP composite paddles for about 300. Would be ok if I didn’t like it and sold it for 2/3’s or 200. Like you said I use different paddles and kayaks on different days depending on how I feel.
Best greenland paddled I have used is the carbon fiber Superior at 22 ounces. Best wood paddle is Don Beale . I have tried alot of brands plus my own carving. Yes tried a Gear Lab too. As far as speed goes a wing is fastest. BUT in big waves like today you will only see me with a greenland.
@PaddleDog52 said:
No clue but shouldn’t GP paddle length be what your fingers curl over? What euro paddles did you use? Curious what size & weight are you?
Seems I got to this before you edited it… so to respond to these:
Greenland Paddle dimensions aren’t quite as simple as that. If you look on many makers’ websites, they discuss the many measurements that matter.
I’m about 6’2" and although I’m trying to be 220 lbs, I’m more like 225 to 230 if I’m being honest. Plenty of muscle mass, for better or worse. Sometimes I wonder if this is the reason I can’t hit my previous “happy weight” target.
Aleutian paddle has a convex blade face on one side. The other side of the blade is nearly flat with a center rib that both stiffens the paddle and helps water shed evenly off the face.
@dc9mm said:
Best greenland paddled I have used is the carbon fiber Superior at 22 ounces. Best wood paddle is Don Beale . I have tried alot of brands plus my own carving. Yes tried a Gear Lab too. As far as speed goes a wing is fastest. BUT in big waves like today you will only see me with a greenland.
What differences have you found between wood and carbon fiber, aside from the obvious weight savings in CF? Does it swing faster, provide more/less bouyancy, go through the water differently? I never anticipated liking a GP, so haven’t had the opportunity to try anything but the one I made.
Me about 230 now 6’ looking to go 220-210 lb. Just lost 25 lb. In six weeks. Biggest I ever was unfortunately. Usually 220 last ten years. Me 64 but fairly strong paddler and improving. Times I paddled with others seems like they have a sea anchor out.
@PaddleDog52 said:
Aleutian paddle has a convex blade face on one side. The other side of the blade is nearly flat with a center rib that both stiffens the paddle and helps water shed evenly off the face.
There’s something to be said for a paddle that works exactly the same in all four orientations of grip. I practice paddling and rolling with my Euro upside down and backwards, but it sure doesn’t work the same.
Kudos to you for making that effort and such accurate data tracking! It’s good to know that what many of us GP users already suspected about our paddles of choice can actually be confirmed – they are, for all practical purposes, pretty much as efficient as Euro paddles, besides being less effort in extended use…
I was at the Greenland Training Camp in Michigan (annually arranged by QajaqUSA) last week and there were dozens of GP’s (and a few Aleutian paddles) there, which we variously shared and tried out. I was very cool to be able to feel the slight differences in the many styles and materials.
One complaint some of the GP fans expressed about the wood versions was that they tend to be a little more flexible than the Carbon Fiber paddles. My favorite GP is made with 5 laminations of WRC, which makes it a bit stiffer than single piece paddles. Several people who tried it out liked it quite a bit – unfortunately the maker, David Smith, of Friday Harbor Paddles, had to quit making them a few years ago due to physical problems related to woodworking. Folks making their own paddles might want to consider similar horizontal laminations (oriented in the same plane as the paddle faces) if they like a slightly stiffer paddle.
I have a Northern Lights 3-piece Carbon (220 cm) that I have never really taken to – probably because it differs slightly from my beloved wooden one in being shouldered and having a slightly thicker loom. I bought it for traveling with my folding kayak but have considered selling it, if anybody wants to make an offer. I think I will invest in a 2-piece wood GP and see if I can carry or check it on the airlines.
I always carry two GPs. One with more surface area for downwind and one with less surface area for upwind. If I feel my cadence is too slow or fast I just switch paddles.
You don’t like the word “better” so I’ll use “gooder”.
FOR ME… the GP is gooder in the wind. When I paddled euros there were many times that a gust of wind would nearly snatch the paddle out of my hands. Never happens with the GP.
FOR ME… The GP is a much gooder tool for rolling than the euro.
FOR ME… the euro is much gooder for transporting because most all of 'em break down into two pieces. Most GPs don’t.
Sparky, you say you don’t feather your Euro-paddle. That clearly–to me anyway–means that you are disadvantaging yourself on the windward leg. That would be especially in a strong headwind and 20 knots is surely a “strong” headwind.
I have to concur that a GP is also not the best tool for going downwind where considerable waves are generated. Most of the time you only get a couple of quick strokes to catch a ride on the bigger waves and to extend the ride after you outrun the wave, you have to grab as much water as possible where you can.
I find the much faster cadence of the GP to be more tiring and less efficient use of energy on long distance paddles.
It has taken me years and thousands of miles of paddling to finally find what i think is my most efficient paddling style and I’m pretty sure the “experts” wouldn’t be all that impressed, but it works for me. I’m also quite sure that the boat makes a huge difference. Some boats obviously have a higher practical potential speed and can take full advantage of a more aggressive paddle (Euro)–whereas a boat with a lesser speed potential is able to be satisfied by a stick. But I try to keep an open mind and maybe there is a GP out there that is the exception.
@dc9mm said:
Best greenland paddled I have used is the carbon fiber Superior at 22 ounces. Best wood paddle is Don Beale . I have tried alot of brands plus my own carving. Yes tried a Gear Lab too. As far as speed goes a wing is fastest. BUT in big waves like today you will only see me with a greenland.
What differences have you found between wood and carbon fiber, aside from the obvious weight savings in CF? Does it swing faster, provide more/less bouyancy, go through the water differently? I never anticipated liking a GP, so haven’t had the opportunity to try anything but the one I made.
The carbon I can swing it faster for sure. Its more bouyant than wood paddles. Its stiffer to but still has some flex. When I use a wood paddle it feels like a lead weight compared to 22 ounce carbon. That applies only to my Superior brand GP as the other brands I tried in carbon were as heavy as the wood ones. I saw no point in getting Carbon unless its lighter. Price is high but I have had mine now for 4 years and its holding up great. Oh I have the 2 piece version with lendal lock.
