Kayak I Can Learn With, Yet Grow With?

another good mid-price line
While the WS Tsunami line tends to be one of the most common in local outfitter shops, I’ve begun to notice that many of those outlets are also stocking P & H’s moderately priced Venture line of plastic kayaks, especially the Easky series – you’d fit the Easky 17. P & H is known for higher end well-designed glass and composite boats and they have brought some of that design to these kayaks. You may want to look for one of the Easkys to try out. These British made boats are in the same price range as the Tsunamis and personally, I find the design more enjoyable to paddle and the outfitting nicer. They are also quite a bit lighter, model for model. One of my paddling buddies has a Tsunami 140 and we have switched off between it and my Easky 15LV (10 lbs lighter but similar dimensions). The Easky is faster and edges much better (secondary stability is outstanding – I can get the coaming underwater and she won’t flip), also has excellent thigh hooks and a nicer seat and foot braces. It does so well in waves that I actually seek out large boat wakes and clapotis to play in. Not bad for a boat that you can often find on sale for under $1,000.

two words: learning curve
I like the recommendation for a Tempest. Can anyone chime in on fit for this person in an Aquanaut?



You are asking for two things that may be mutually exclusive to a certain degree. You might want to err on the side of “challenging” in order to extend your satisfaction with the boat you choose.

huge list - find a shop you like
There would be a huge list of boats that would work for you. The two you mentioned (Alchemy & Tempest) are both sea kayaks, but pretty different when compared to each other.



The Alchemy is a decent day touring boat, but great as a rock garden boat (one that you use to zig zag through rocks and such). You would have to pack pretty lightly to do a 3 dayer out of it. I have one and do use it for day trips. Other similar boats are the P&H Delphin and North Shore Aspect.



The Tempest is more of a touring boat, with better forward speed, a bit less maneuverability, and more storage space. Great for touring. Similar boats are Necky Chatham 17, various boats from Britain (Valley, P&H, North Shore, etc.), etc.



I would find a local shop to you that you like and start a relationship. This may limit your choices to boats to the brands they carry, but each shop usually has plenty to choose from that you will do just fine. The shops often have rent-to-own deals - you pay rental fees which can then be applied to a purchase. Also, if you haven’t yet, take the day long basic sea kayak class that the shop offers, which will give you some butt time in a boat, but also teach the basic skills.



You may want to also join a local club;

Bay Area Sea Kayakers - mostly SF and North Bay bask.org

Western Sea Kayakers - San Jose and Monterey www.westernseakayakers.org



There are a couple in the Central Valley, if you are closer to there. Lodi Paddle Club and Sacramento Sea Kayakers come to mind.

Stability is all in your head …
Come paddle my wavemaster strata waveski for 20 minutes and any kayak on the market will feel like an aircraft carrier.


I think there’s some truth to this
I certainly didn’t start out on the most stable boat but I had no frame of reference at the time. So when I try less stable kayaks, they don’t feel as tender as people told me they would.

Agree 100 percent
I have always said that boats don’t tip over.

People tip them over !



Jack L

Well said Jack
The toughest part of the kayak thing is getting a heavy boat back and forth to the water. A used kevlar boat that is 16 ft long with no rudder might be a good choice. A bad rudder is worse than no rudder because you have no way to push off with your feet. My 19 ft kevlar seda glider lists at 44#. It did the 20 miles around cape ann- blackburn challenge in 3.7 hours because it has understern rudder.



If money and storage are an issue , then consider my first boat. For about $150 you could buy used dagger animas white water boat that is 10.5 ft long and plenty stable to get nailed by waves. I shoved it into the trunk of my taurus with back seat folded down and a bungee on the trunk. The you could sell it and demo lots of different boats.



Weekend lessons are great. Please beware of pressure to buy fiberglass for 3 grand unless you are a doctor!

I 2nd The Zephyr
to put on your demo list. Very beginner-friendly and the most shin-friendly sea kayak I ever paddled.

Two different takes = crux of the debate
::pirateoverforty: I bought the [Tempest] 170 used off craigslist and since I was used to my rec boat barges it was too tippy at first for me to relax in. When I get into bad chop or quartering waves I have to focus hard on the boat. I bought the [Tsunami] 145 shortly after that… I am much more relaxed in the 145, can play with my camera in the surf etc , I know it’s not going to dump me but I can still edge it.



The tsunami is 24" and the tempest is 21" wide. I like the Tempest 170 and if that was my only boat I would probably be a lot more comfortable in it, but it’s something you gotta work on. If I’m out for a day trip to the close in islands I prefer the tsunami which I could highly recommend as a beginner boat. I don’t need the extra speed of the tempest… and it’s alot more relaxing ride. If you are just starting out and get something too advanced then you won’t stay with it long enough to get good enough to handle your boat. ::



::NateHanson: You want a sea kayak. It sounds to me like you might be over-thinking the stability thing. With a few minutes of seat time, most sea kayaks will not feel uncomfortably tippy to you. You can relax on a trip in nearly any kayak once you’re accustomed to it… Resist the temptation to buy a “beginner boat”. If you want to do sea kayaking, get a sea kayak. You don’t need a shorter wider boat for learning to sea kayak. You’ll do better in a proper boat. ::





Reading the two posts above, seems like this is the crux of the issue… whether or not someone can rapidly get used to the lower initial stability of true sea kayaks or not. I gather from the contrasting advice above that some ppl do, some ppl don’t.



I don’t know which I am, and likely won’t 'til I try out several kayaks of differing design, I’m guessing.



I do know that I don’t want a rec kayak/barge though, for a lot of reasons, safety among them. So I guess for me it’s coming down to what they’re calling the ‘crossover’ segment, i.e. ‘day tourers’, versus ‘true’ or hardcore sea kayaks, i.e. the really long and really narrow ones.



Will be interesting/fun to see how it plays out. Can’t wait to try a bunch of different 'yaks. :slight_smile:




Bay Area Shop Recommendations?

– Last Updated: Jul-14-11 2:13 PM EST –

::Peter CA: Huge list- find a shop you like... I would find a local shop to you that you like and start a relationship. ::


Terrific idea. Question is, which one?

I'm in the SF Bay Area, btw.

Bay Area Info
I would contact these folks about taking a few lessons and trying out different boats:



http://www.seatrek.com/pages/classes/scrollpage.htm



and Kayak Connection in Moss Landing.



At 210 lbs, if you really think you are going to end up doing three day trips on the ocean on the North California Coast you are going to need a full on seakayak with some capacity.



Plastic - look at Prijon Kodiak.

Fiberglass look at Valley Nordkapp



Both boats can be found used from time to time, especially if you join a club.

Valley Aquanaut
was mentioned by someone above. I would second this. My wife has one. Quite good stability for a beginner. But also an excellent boat as you get more advanced - in fact, one the very best boats there is for choppy and rough conditions. it’s a boat you will never outgrow.

Bay Area Kayaking! Highly recommended
Hi there–

In answer to the question, Kayak Connection is highly recommended for any paddling (including Kayaking & Stand-up-paddleboarding-- even taking out a windrider!). They’re on Facebook & Twitter as well as at kayakconnection.com. Enjoy! :slight_smile:

-H

Whatever you decide on…
make sure you get something with a rudder. I recently bought a used 16’ Necky without a rudder and believe me, if you get caught on open water in 15+ mph winds you’ll wish you had it. The boat is almost impossible to control without it.

I thought it was all about skegs?
Rudder? I thought skegs were all the rage right now?



Anyone have thoughts on rudders vs skegs? Or is this the classic ‘tastes great/less filling’ debate of kayaking?



Main knock I keep hearing on rudders is that they inhibit skills development for newbs like me, and they make it harder to use the foot braces. There’s also more to go wrong mechanically too, I guess.



Main argument I hear against skegs is that they can’t help you turn, and pebbles can get caught in there and jam the skeg.


Rudders vs. Skegs
I’m sure if you do a search, you’ll find a few threads on this topic.



I find the debate a bit silly. Rudders and skegs are part of whole design of a kayak. It’s silly to put a rudder on a skeg boat and vis-versa (a few models offer either option, but I think that’s more a marketing ploy). Rudders and skegs do different things.



Boats with skegs are DESIGNED to have skegs, and and designed to have certain handling properties. Same goes for ruddered kayaks.



So the question is, what kind of kayak do you want? What characteristics do you want in your kayak?

Re: Rudders vs Skegs
::Watermark said: So the question is, what kind of kayak do you want? What characteristics do you want in your kayak? ::





Oh gosh WM, I guess I want what everyone else wants: everything. :wink:



You know… a boat that’s easy to turn, yet tracks great.

That would never think about weathercocking, yet is nimble.

That has good initial stability and great secondary stability.

Light, yet durable.

Comfortable, fun, and cheap.



Who cares if any of that is contradictory? The heart wants what the heart wants, LOL. :smiley:



The above silliness aside, what I REALLY want is what I stated at the top of the thread: a boat that won’t hold me back too much as I grow in the sport, yet won’t make learning new skills a frustrating, teeth-gnashing experience.



That too is contradictory, possibly, but is probably a more honest goal than just saying “Gimme EVERYTHING.” And hopefully is much more achievable.


I second the earlier recommendation
I second the recommendation to try out a bunch of boats. When I first started paddling, I tried out ten or fifteen different types of boats. I had settled on a particular brand and model and was about to buy new when I saw a great deal on a Tempest 170 on craigslist. I bought it that weekend, but I wouldn’t have been ready to do that had a I not paddled one previously.



Interestingly enough, that boat felt a bit tippy when I first got it. I was a new paddler, though, and now, several years later, it feels like a tub compared to others I’ve paddled. I’m still happy with it, but I was really happy to have tried before I bought.

Find a used Valley Skerray
Will fit, paddles great, is a capable boat.

Aquanaut fit
The Aquanaut might fit, but my guess is that a new paddler that size would feel a little confined in it. Argonaut might be better.



I like the recommendation of a Venture Easky. The Tsunamis are good, but if you really intend to grow in the sport and develop edging, rolling, bracing, etc, the Tsunamis have some features that make those things more difficult, especially the shorter Tsunamis. The Venture Easky has more of a sea kayak hull shape, just with a bit more stability than top-end sea kayaks.